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Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

nature.com

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Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#131

Post by hbarka »

pmb_ wrote: post #82
4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

I'd have to give an anti-recommendation to this book. The author never explains his thesis and the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. He spends very little time drawing connections to consciousness or speaking about what octopus life can tell us about consciousness. There is a whole chapter w…

I mean even for humans consciousness has been a mystery. I throw, therefore I am.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#132

Post by hanoz »

daveslash wrote: post #20
bananarchist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the plural is octopodes, just like cactus->cactodes, virus->virodes and surplus-surplodes (my favorite)

It may be a word like "fishes". I once saw "fishes" on an interpretive sign at an aquarium and some folks were mocking such and obvious grammatical error. Turns out, "fish" is the correct way to refer to multiple individual fish as a group, whereas "fishes" is the correct way to refer to multiple species of fish. I wonder if "octopi" might refer to multiple octopus without making any indication as to weather they are…

> ...whereas "fishes" is the correct way to refer to multiple species of fish.

What about the fishes of bread and fishes fame?

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#133

Post by CalRobert »

cph123 wrote: post #36
bananarchist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the plural is octopodes, just like cactus->cactodes, virus->virodes and surplus-surplodes (my favorite)

I googled "cactodes" and this comment was the 7th result on the first page.

Poor DuckDuckGo doesn't even have it on page 1.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#134

Post by harshbutfair »

flyingfences wrote: post #113
dmichulke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro tip: invite him for for pizzae

Dialectically, "pizza" is an uncountable and "pie(s)" is the unit.

In Australia we would never refer to pizzas as pies. Is this a US-only thing or does it happen elsewhere?

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#135

Post by somishere »

Was snorkeling with my 4yo in July and came across a decent sized octopus curled up under a small bit of coral substrate on the reef flat, in about 40cm of water. Wasn't able to id it properly, but we sat there for 15 minutes watching each other. Longest the kid has ever sat still in one spot. Cephalopods are without doubt the coolest fish in the sea.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#136

Post by Telemakhos »

mc32 wrote: post #8
4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

English plural vs Latin vs Greek. Since its origin is Greek I’d take the anglicized plural or the original plural over the superimposed Latin plural which makes absolutely no sense to me.

In ancient Greek πολύπους (polypus) is the more common and generic term, ὀκτάπους (octapus) the term for the animal, and ὀκτόπους (octopus) a possible synonym that seems to be used more often for the scorpion (which also has eight legs) or as an adjective for anything that is eight feet long or of eight square feet in size. Really, the English should be "octapus" or "polypus," and curmudgeons who want to feel superior to hoi illiterati polloi should cherish this treasure of pointless trivia.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#137

Post by OJFord »

permo-w wrote: post #73
geraldwhen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All languages are a mess. Imagine instead of specific noun rules, every single noun had a rule by way of a gender. And to conjugate “boat” or “table” you need to know its arbitrary gender.

English, unlike a lot of the big European languages, doesn’t have a central controlling body and hasn’t gone through powerful standardisation efforts - beyond dictionaries (i.e. consistent spelling and meaning). many (most?) European languages follow pretty consistent conjugation and pronunciation rules. yeah there are a few exceptions in each case, but nowhere near the scale of English. grammatical gender is in most…

> grammatical gender is in most cases only really as hard as learning the words themselves

That's a really good point actually, one I've not heard before.

I think it's still harder learning from an ungendered language, since you naturally think of mapping word:word, but you also need word:gender now. With your point though, maybe I can have an easier time of it by trying to consciously think of it instead as word:(word, gender), if that makes sense.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#138

Post by OJFord »

colechristensen wrote: post #28
daveslash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be a word like "fishes". I once saw "fishes" on an interpretive sign at an aquarium and some folks were mocking such and obvious grammatical error. Turns out, "fish" is the correct way to refer to multiple individual fish as a group, whereas "fishes" is the correct way to refer to multiple species of fish. I wonder if "octopi" might refer to multiple octopus without making any indication as to weather they are…

There’s no right way. Octopus is a word created in modern scientific latin by nonnative (scientific) speakers out of greek parts brought into English. There are no real rules there. It is not a loanword from Greek, it was meant to be a scientific latin origin word, but not native latin like other Latin words that have -us as endings for nouns. It’s a mess, there’s no answer, pluralize as you like but don’t go telling…

There's a wrong way, though - anybody smugly telling somebody they're an idiot for saying 'octopuses' when it's actually 'octopi'.

I think 'octopodes' is 'most correct', but 'octopuses' is fine. And most will mispronounce 'octopodes' if they choose it anyway, so 'octopuses' probably would've been better.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#139

Post by threads2 »

Matumio wrote: post #130
pmb_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to give an anti-recommendation to this book. The author never explains his thesis and the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. He spends very little time drawing connections to consciousness or speaking about what octopus life can tell us about consciousness. There is a whole chapter w…

Having read that book, yes, "Octopuses are cool" is a pretty good summary. It's worth reading it for that. On the biology part, if you never have heard of terms like "efference copy" it will be interesting food for thought about what consciousness might be, but no "solution" really. And you'll learn that an octopus is a ten megapixel screen, but that's just the first point again. If you only want that first point, th…

> if you never have heard of terms like "efference copy" it will be interesting food for thought about what consciousness might be

Can you expand on this? I think I kind of understand where you're going with this: consciousness might be an efference copy of our actions? (so our actions don't "surprise" us? rather than consciousness creating actions?)

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#140

Post by OJFord »

harshbutfair wrote: post #134
flyingfences wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dialectically, "pizza" is an uncountable and "pie(s)" is the unit.

In Australia we would never refer to pizzas as pies. Is this a US-only thing or does it happen elsewhere?

It's American to my British ear. I think they sometimes distinguish 'pizza pie' as being the deeper-pan Chicagoan style, which to be fair is a lot more like what I would call a pie than what I would call a pizza. (But also not really either.)
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