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Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

forum.effectivealtruism.org

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Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#131

Post by colinmhayes »

RC_ITR wrote: post #33
sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

Coinbase makes money on fees and doesn’t lend out deposits. Seriously look at their balance sheet! They have zero risk of this kind of insolvency, their only risk is people stop using them to trade. Say what you will about that being a weird/dumb model but here we are.

Coin base doesn’t offer margin loans?

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#132

Post by techsplooge »

Nursie wrote: post #58
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve been waiting years for people to suffer? Lookup “ schadenfreude”.

Been waiting for years for the obvious ecosystem of fraud and hot air to implode and take with it the unbearable hype that has infected the tech space. And yes, I believe a little schadenfreude is appropriate, given the circumstances and all the "Have fun staying poor" crap.

No post body was provided.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#133

Post by graeme »

RC_ITR wrote: post #33
sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

Coinbase makes money on fees and doesn’t lend out deposits. Seriously look at their balance sheet! They have zero risk of this kind of insolvency, their only risk is people stop using them to trade. Say what you will about that being a weird/dumb model but here we are.

> They have zero risk of this kind of insolvency, their only risk is people stop using them to trade.

US regulated companies can, in fact, go bankrupt, and frequently do. They can also misuse funds or make foolish decisions that cause them to to under even if customers keep using them.

There is even have a system for scoring this risk, called the Altman Z score. A good score is above 3. A grey zone score is 1.8-3.0.

Coinbase’s current score is 0.15!

In the distressed zone with serious possibility of bankruptcy within the next two years.

https://www.gurufocus.com/term/zscore/COIN/Altman-Z-Score/CO...

Anyone who disagrees with this solvency risk assessment is free to purchase some of their outstanding bonds. Their bond coming due in 2028 goes for 53 cents on the dollar.

If they don’t go bankrupt, you’ll double your money in five years. A yield of 13.3% per year!

https://markets.businessinsider.com/bonds/coinbase_global_in...

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#134

Post by woodruffw »

hither_shores wrote: post #130
woodruffw wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even a marginal reduction in the risk of nuclear war, for instance, would be a very good thing. Nobody disagrees with this. But since you brought it up, I think it's worth asking: what precisely has the EA movement done to reduce, even marginally, the risk of a nuclear war?

> what precisely has the EA movement done to reduce, even marginally, the risk of a nuclear war? Nothing that I'm aware of. In general I think that most of the current "longtermist" organizations are useless - but that doesn't mean they're incorrect .

Here’s how I think about it: they aren't necessarily incorrect, but they are behaving in a misleading manner by labeling speculative ethical behavior as “EA” when it’s neither effective nor particularly altruistic (in the sense that Singer uses).

I don’t belong to the EA movement, so maybe it just isn’t my place to say what should or shouldn’t be EA. But this kind of bootstrapping of classroom ethical dilemmas into actually diverting donated money away from human welfare efforts astounds me.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#135

Post by 55555 »

015a wrote: post #107
hailwren wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase avoided this fate by being a us regulated company. FTX.us is still above water. It’s the Bahamas based company that was able to cook the books and is now defunct. As for Binance, they have the SAFU ( https://academy.binance.com/en/glossary/secure-asset-fund-fo... ) which they just topped up to $1B at current market prices (today). You can verify the balances on chain, but there aren’t any statements about ou…

About 40% of the SAFU is in BNB; their own FTT-like token. Its literally the same reason FTX collapsed; BNB just still has value.

Yeah agreed. This seems needlessly risky.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#136

Post by canoebuilder »

ww520 wrote: post #97

The collapse of FTX will impact the whole crypto space negatively. Nothing is spared. 1. All the alt-coins in FTX/Alameda Reasearch holding will be liquidated. E.g. Solana has been down >40% already. 2. The value of the FTT tokens issued by FTX valued at billions has evaporated. The value of FTT were used to buy other coins, directly and indirectly inflated all of them, including Bitcoin and Ethereum. When the value…

Having watched the MtGox, Mark Karpeles, Willy Bot saga, and then see that same pattern repeat over and over really is almost surreal.

What’s funny, in a tragic kind of way, is that initial market manipulation from Karpeles is what drove the initial wave of VC interest who thought they were seeing an indication of genuine widespread demand. And then they couldn’t be left holding the bag and it just snowballed where we’ve seen this ongoing pattern of ever bigger scams and market rigging.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#137

Post by colinmhayes »

7e wrote: post #16
AccountAccount1 wrote: post #10

SBF was a very positive force for EA, now that he's down everyone piles on him? shameless

I believe it's the common folk who had money with FTX who are down. All the way to zero. One wonders if EA is could be considered a guilt-compensation mechanism.

Ea probably isn’t super worried about crypto gamblers tbh.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#138

Post by Thorrez »

RC_ITR wrote: post #33
sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

Coinbase makes money on fees and doesn’t lend out deposits. Seriously look at their balance sheet! They have zero risk of this kind of insolvency, their only risk is people stop using them to trade. Say what you will about that being a weird/dumb model but here we are.

Another risk is if they get hacked.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#140

Post by Gatsky »

woodruffw wrote: post #36

This is maybe tangential of me to say, but since this post is coming from an EA forum: I think the cozy relationship between EA and FTX has done immense damage to the public image and standing of the EA movement. I've never been an EA person (much less a utilitarian) but I can appreciate the meat and potatoes of applied ethics, especially when those ethics are applied consistently . The infusion of cryptocurrency fun…

EA and BankmaniFried receive your criticism for trying to do good. Is it really the case that other billionaires who earn their money say selling cigarettes, or helping old ladies gamble their life savings away, or selling vaping kits to children, and spend their ill-begotten gains on expensive champagne and private jets, are somehow better because they are morally consistent?
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