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Story: “It would be career limiting..."

doomedprojects.com

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Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#131

Post by throwawaysleep »

pyrolistical wrote: post #63
Seattle3503 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it seems like scope needed to be reduced in order to deliver an MVP on time.

I wonder if we have conditioned clients to expect everything now. Are we harming our own customers by allowing them to make demands that in turn only harm themselves in the long run? Do we have too much of a revolving door for an organization to see this trend?

Pretty much. I have never seen a product manager/project manager see a multi year project through to the end.

I also suspect a lot of it comes down to it not being the problem of anyone until the end of the project. Sales can promise whatever they want. Tech can put it off for a while.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#132

Post by mcv »

I did not initially read it as a threat, but as a warning. That somehow the client would end the project manager's career, or something. How naive of me! Clearly the project manager knew full well they were just milking the client for an endless stream of money for a doomed project as long as they could just provide the client with some hope that it really was nearly finished.

Of course that's the kind of behaviour that should be career-limiting, but clearly the industry has more than enough room for leeches like that. Because this is hardly the first time I've heard of a story like this; some companies really seem to exist primarily to live off these sort of projects.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#133

Post by mring33621 »

duped wrote: post #47

I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…

There's a lot of apologizing in this thread for incompetent/lying management.

Many of us 'less socially aware' (or perhaps 'neuro diverse') people would like this waste to disappear.

If I suck at coding, you have no issue letting me go.

If you suck at management, then I have no issue letting you go.

Symmetry is beautiful.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#135

Post by travisgriggs »

I read through to the end. Because that's what a thorough engineer does. But honestly, I guessed exactly how this story was going to end when they rattled off the long list of the different kinds of managers. Manager::engineer ratio has exactly the opposite effect as teacher::student ratio does.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#137

Post by MereInterest »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #37
abeppu wrote: post #6

> we hadn’t even received all of the specifications from the customer that we would need to complete the project > And then one of them said “It would be career limiting if the client were to hear this.” > I’d met my responsibility to the company – and the company had threatened me as a result. The author interprets that they were threatened. But really, for whom would it be career limiting? Perhaps I'm being too cha…

I wasn't in the room, and a lot of it depends on the vibe, facial expression, atmosphere, personalities, etc. But agreed - as read , my initial interpretation was not even remotely as one of the threat. Perhaps advice, or conclusion, or discussion. It depends hugely what else was said though - I doubt it was truly "and that was the end of that" in the sense that those words were the only ones spoken at that meeting,…

I'd put it in the category of "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" [0]. There is no way for somebody with authority to express a preference without it coming across as a request. The same words that from a trusted coworker would be advice to keep your head down become an implied threat when given from an executive.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#138

Post by praptak »

RajT88 wrote: post #102

I don't think I've ever heard an anecdote about a "career limiting" statement being made which wasn't a red flag about the company culture. I think my personal favorite was someone - seriously - saying to a Sales guy that he shouldn't espouse his opinion that he didn't like Bourbon anywhere near the CEO, as that would be "career limiting". WHAT!

Of course it is a red flag! It's the corporate equivalent of drawing a knife in a bar fight.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#139

Post by xupybd »

duped wrote: post #47

I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…

The hid a known multimillion dollar over run from the customer. To me that goes beyond dishonest.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#140

Post by JJMcJ »

duped wrote: post #47

I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…

> Present solutions, not problems.

Sometimes that's just victim blaming.

In this story, the report presented the situation cogently, and the higher ups decided it would be best not to tell the client, within the context of semi-ripoff system development.

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