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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#131

Post by another_devy »

factsarelolz wrote: post #59
verisimilitude wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. If you are saying we are all interconnected, relying on the diverse resources, products, and gifts from around this small planet to do the things we want to do, e.g. care for our sick, advance the common good, protect the vulnerable, provide stable sources of food _so that_ our global population can grow in a safe, equitable, sustainable manner toward lives full of fulfillment and wonder, away from subsistence l…

The US has injected untold billions into the Indian market through off shoring phone support. India has made hundreds of millions of dollar scamming America's most vulnerable population.

US has not injected billions into India! Capitalist companies trying to find cheaper and disposable labour has done it. Of course the US Government police allows that but the policy is there because of these companies not other way around.

> scamming America’s most vulnerable population

Nothing from that goes to Government taxes or public benefits. These people are not out of poverty by scamming.

please try not to down punch some positive news from “Third world countries” if you don’t have any constructive criticism

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#132

Post by ohiovr »

boxed wrote: post #87
socialdemocrat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just have an issue with the CCP and their apologists. That is primarily who people refer to when they say China. It is pretty common speech. Same when talking about America doing something, we refer to the US government primarily, not its people.

The heros in the story of Chinas amazing numbers of people lifted out of poverty is Deng Xiaoping and his successors. They've been basically thrown out with Xi. So modern China is unfortunately on the totally wrong trajectory. It's ok to say "China was going the right direction between years X and Y" without being an "apologist".

Deng was a heck of alot better than the guy before him.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#133

Post by ClumsyPilot »

InTheArena wrote: post #65

This is one of the messages that need to be pushed hard - globalization - with it's implications on the "first world" global middle class - has helped make this possible. It's like talking to people opposed to GMO rice. They are fine with an ideological position that GMO foods should be eliminated until you point out the alternative is hundreds of millions dead of starvation.

Why does globalisation automatically deserve credit for progress in two major economies with the most government planning?

Have evaluated alternative hypotheses? Maybe Education or Scientific Literacy or something else deserves this credit.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#134

Post by ohiovr »

vkou wrote: post #130
mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

32 years ago, GDP per capita in China and India was $300. Today, GDP per capita in India is $2,200. It is $12,500 in China. I'm not sure that 'Six times faster growth, and eight years of life expectancy, and seven times fewer people facing hunger and food insecurity' is as much of a black eye as you think. I could think of quite a few Americans who would happily embrace a one-party state, if it meant that they wouldn…

Life under a king can be great but it always depends on the king.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#135

Post by deathgripsss »

jimbokun wrote: post #122
DimitriPetrova wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the Multidimensional Poverty Measure is defined as; An index that captures the percentage of households in a country deprived along three dimensions of well-being – monetary poverty, education, and basic infrastructure services – to provide a more complete picture of poverty. There's also the Multidimensional Poverty Index which has an alternate definition

But is there a greater percentage of people in UK deprived along any of those dimensions?

It must be relative to that nation. From my experience the UK IS becoming an incredibly segregated nation along economic lines. I don't find it hard to believe that 22% of the populace are in relative poverty. This is very different from absolute poverty, of which I'm sure India has a higher percentage.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#136

Post by spoils19 »

nsenifty wrote: post #68
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

My first job was in Infosys back in 2001. Coming from a lower-middle class farming family, it was a huge deal. My monthly gross was something my dad (farmer) + mom (school teacher) would earn in an entire year. I remember my dad proudly putting a portrait of NR Narayana Murthy (founder of Infosys) on our wall - it is usually reserved for gods/ancestors or revered sages.

That's awesome to hear! Our family does something similar - we have a line of portraits above our family photos of the various CEOs that have hired us throughout the years - namely coal and oil company owners.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#137

Post by adamc »

dirtyid wrote: post #120
anthropodie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those millions who moved to middle class are also helping the layer below them. These lifted households are spending their wealth on house helps, local grocery stores, taxis/autos and a whole lot of other local businesses. This trickle down effect then boosts development in cities where these IT hubs are located. Even more students then want to join these IT companies and enjoy the lifestyle of their seniors thus con…

I think in a few years India will find focusing on middle class is not enough. There's finite demand for domestic+outsourceable white collar jobs for 1.4B internal market + ~400M English speakers around the world. PRC has 10s of millions of white collar jobs + 100s of millions of manufacturing that pays better than trickle down housesitting, but there's still 100s of millions more stuck in informal economy while both…

There are lots of reasons to think the PRC is about to hit a very rough patch as globalism shrinks.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#138

Post by akudha »

db1234 wrote: post #128
akudha wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is rosy though. In cities like Bangalore, real estate is super expensive, thanks to software salaries. The same is happening in second, third tier cities now. But generally speaking, yes, all it takes is one person from a family landing a white collar job. And life becomes (relatively) much better

Not everything is rosy anywhere in the world. One can find issues with any positive story. I would rather have expensive real estate problem due to high paying jobs than poverty.

During my dad's time, it was much easier to buy a house on a modest salary. And the houses were well built too. These days, it is near impossible to buy a house unless you are a very high earner, as all available real estate is being gobbled up by "investors", aka, who have high paying jobs (mostly software).

It is good that we are elevating people from poverty. All I am saying is it creates a different set of problems. But yeah, overall it is good that we are able to pull more people up from poverty.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#139

Post by GauntletWizard »

endisneigh wrote: post #123
rhaway84773 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the CCP’s (more specifically Xi Jinping’s) entire thesis is that democracies are incapable of producing good outcomes. A lot of the move towards authoritarianism that we’ve been seeing in the world has been driven by the success of the “China model”. If India is successful to a similar degree as China, that shatters this belief, especially since there are very significant questions about the Chinese economy a…

I’m curious to see a source that says the modern CCP states that democracy cannot succeed in general. The CCP stance is that democracy wouldn’t work for China. Whether that’s actually true or not is debatable of course. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-politics-xi-idUSBRE...

Their stance relies mostly on the same tired canards that India disproves; that an uneducated populace, rural areas, etc are hindrances. They are, but they're not ones that Communism/Authoritarianism solves - And India has some authoritarian properties, too.

The 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation is perfect example of how a somewhat democratic state can pull off large scale action that China refutes as a possibility. Was it pretty? Was it effective? Who knows. What matters in this argument is that it's the kind of corruption fighting mechanism that China likes to cite as the domain of their heavenly mandate and not possible for democracies.

Again, China can keep yelling that their way is the only way for China, but there does need to be a little more supporting basis than that.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#140

Post by gandalfgeek »

I grew up in India in the 90s, saw first hand the transition from the disastrous socialism of the Nehru era to open markets, capitalism and deregulation. (The end of "license raj".)

It started with PV Narasimha Rao as PM and Manmohan Singh as his finance minister in the early 90s. Thankfully Singh himself had a fruitful tenure as PM later. All it took for India to take off was the shackles of govt control to come off.

Sad to see that the lesson hasn't been learned and even today there is a strong strain of socialist reasoning calling for more govt control on markets.

Concrete example: before deregulation one had to pull strings (e.g. have family or friends in the civil service) to get a phone to your house, then wait a few months after approval to actually get the wire to your house. That was also the era that there were two channels on TV, both state controlled (Doordarshan) that broadcast maybe 5-6 hrs per day.

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