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Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

swarm.space

131–140 of 165 posts

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suppose that you can pack that info (sensor id, metric type and data) in 32 bytes I suppose you haven't worked with such constraints before, so that's why you think this needs 32 bytes. In reality, 4 or 6 will likely do. Send diff in metric value if applicable, use variable-length encoding to not waste bytes. Allocate bits and not whole ints to things (like metric type). ID is already part of lower level protocol -…

How do you use variable-length encoding in a limited-length package? You either allow a situation where this variable-length encoding would not fit in a package and then it's not really clear what to do. Or you just saving bytes for nothing, because you could use fixed-length encoding instead and satellite does not care whether you sent 65 or 69 bytes of data.

At work we’ve been experimenting with what amounts to a pre-calculated/pre-shared dictionary to allow for compression of small data, but just picking what data you send and it’s representation gets you very very far.

Because we need to put nearly arbritrary data into our NB-IoT UDP socket, Inmarsat or Swarm, saving bytes let’s us pack more data into a message so we can send fewer messages: saving money and increasing reliability (because if you miss a Swarm upload time you can have hours before the next one, for example, or our Simcom modem might hit a black spot and such)

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#132
post #22

I can't get to their documentation but it looks like it's using LoRa for the RF. https://blog.semtech.com/satellite-iot-qa-with-swarm Pretty cool. Just checked coverage over my house using their pass checker and it's already ~50% coverage through the course of the day. No good for realtime alerting but good enough for daily reporting.

Yep, it seems like you get a transmit window every ~2 hours max. All in all this service is much more reasonable(cost/antenna size/transmit rate/power) than I expected. You can basically send 2kb/day from a large chunk of the world(with a view of the sky) for $5/mo. Somehow even cheaper than m2m cell plans I've encountered, though granted I haven't looked at services in the past few years.

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Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#133
post #19

Under 150KB per month, $5. Under 300KB per month, $10. Under 450KB per month, $15. Up to 600KB per month, $20. Note, that's total number of bytes, not bytes per second.

With numbers like that, this seems completely useless except for all but the most wildly specific of applications

Our use case is industrial IoT sensing in extremely remote deployments.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#134

Wouldn’t ham radio works ? I thought by now those would be miniature enough to be used for IOT ?

Two main reasons:

1. Long distance communication require HF frequencies which requires very large antennas.

2. If you’re talking specifically about the HF amateur radio bands, you may not use those for commercial purposes.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see this being very useful for scientific beacons, for example to track ocean currents or bird migrations. The latter currently use cellular connections, but can only track birds through areas where reception is present.

If I was asked to engineer such a tracker, I would definitely buffer data inside to flush when connected to celluar network. Not always real time, but much more useful.

I'm guessing you live in a relatively dense country. Since many animals will deliberately avoid more populated areas that wouldn't work many places.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#136
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What might somebody (or some company) use this for? 192 bytes * 750 packets = 144000 bytes per month at what speed/latency?

Hourly data collection for science like stream gages, earthquakes, air quality, precipitation, or similar in very remote areas. Sensors along a pipeline etc to monitor remote infrastructure. Texting in remote areas for logging, cattle, forestry services, etc. Redundancy for boats, emergency services etc that may have primary and secondary communication channels, but still greatly benefit from the capacity for redunda…

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Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#137
post #12

Minimum order of 25, so roughly $3725 for one year unless you get the "eval kit" @ $449. USD $5/MO PER DEVICE Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet), including up to 60 downlink (2-way) data packets

What might somebody (or some company) use this for? 192 bytes * 750 packets = 144000 bytes per month at what speed/latency?

This seems like a surprisingly small amount of data in this day and age of connectedness.

I wonder how much total bandwidth each of these satellites can push per month. Anyone know the backend aggregate sustained data rate per sat?

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#138
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Order of magnitude less expensive.

Inmarsat is surprisingly more competitive to Swarm than we expected, but man it is difficult to get passed all the bullshit resellers, which is where Swarm is way easier. But for our use cases Inmarsat has been a better fit right now, though we use both on our board depending on the deployment: if we don’t need as much bandwidth and are okay with the black out times where we’re not covered by Swarm, it’s great

Interesting, I didn’t know Inmarsat offers IoT connectivity, or are you using regular BGAN (SMS or data)?

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but then IoT usually invokes a sense of (almost) real-time monitoring of things and lots of packets etc... But I get your point, also you can always do a lot of things to save on bandwidth, like do not send info which is not interesting (i.e. no point in sending 100s of "no fire was detected" messages). Btw, anyone here knows if there's compression schemes designed specifically for small data packets? Gzip and o…

Yeah and that's probably why IoT devs absolutely crank up the data rate and spew dozens of Bluetooth advertising packets in the air for no apparent reason, probably significantly reducing battery life that could have been 5yrs, for applications that really don't need instant response. Something like msgpack might be able to compress ints to some degree since it can represent them as smaller data types.

Thank you for the msgpack reference.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ideal for asset tracking - you can fit a GPS fix, timestamp, and accuracy estimate (based on # of satellites visible) into 12 bytes, which is enough to ping once per minute and still only use half your allocated bandwidth. If your asset tags call in every 5 minutes or once per hour lots of options open up. 2 way communications aren't much more demanding because most of what you need can be done with lookup table…

> which is enough to ping once per minute and still only use half your allocated bandwidth Err, no - at 750 packets/month, you’d burn through your allocation in 12.5 hours at that rate.

Sorry, I should have said record it once per minute and then upload less frequently (since each packet can be 192 bytes).
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