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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

konichivalue.com

131–140 of 237 posts

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#131

Outside of either aggressive capitalist desire to continuously lower wages or some groups wanting to destroy Japanese culture, I've never understood why there was such an extreme panic by some about Japan's lower birth rates to the point that they urged mass immigration there. A stabilizing population on an island with limited space seems like a good thing. A little more space opens up for living and real-estate pric…

I think there a few flaws with your thoughts

> A stabilizing population on an island with limited space seems like a good thing. A little more space opens up for living and real-estate prices might become more favorable. Maybe there's room for more parks and other things that make life good. When conditions become more favorable, people will be able to reproduce more.

Population density is not homogenous. Excluding pandemic era, the trend has been decreasing population density in the countryside and smaller cities, while more population moves to the big cities. In general, population size need not correlate for the average persons lived population density.

> I'd say that the human desire for reproduction might work in the same way, only instead of prey, maybe real-estate prices and quality of life is the cyclical variable to note.

This is likely true on the extremes to some degree, but I haven’t seen much evidence that this is a driving force of population dynamics.

> I've never understood why there was such an extreme panic by some about Japan's lower birth rates to the point that they urged mass immigration there.

This is generally because the population is not stabilizing, it’s on the verge of collapsing. If fertility rate rises “naturally” in the future, as you suggest, then it’s obviously not an issue. But maintaining a 1.3 or lower fertility rate indefinitely will result in an exponential decay of population which could itself result in a decline of living standards. For example, if the population decreases too much to support a high speed rail system so these are abandoned as unprofitable.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#132

I spent a month in Tokyo in 29 Square meters it was painfully small, and expensive. It was the best I could find. These numbers are deeply suspicious.

The standard rental contract in Japan is not 1-year, but 2-years. For these engagements, as with employment, it's about consistency, predictability and long-term commitment. One-month is ultra-short by Japanese standards. The rental inventory is distinct from regular apartments. This is effectively a hotel.

Kinda, it's 2 years but you can usually leave anytime after 6 months with no fee. After 2 years you need to sign a new contract, which means new fees etc

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the numbers are a bit skewed by the fact that more people live alone in Tokyo than Paris or NYC, but it's definitely true that you get more square meters per $ in Tokyo. Also, it is true that people on Tokyo on average earn less than NYC, London and Paris, but they also spend a smaller percentage of their total income on housing, so housing is cheaper in PPP terms too. I'll dig out the exact numbers tomorrow if…

Do you know numbers about how much housing is sponsored by the companies in Japan? Maybe that's what is making the difference since it's not counted neither as salary, nor as the price of the house? I know some large companies sponsor partially or totally the housing of thousands of their employees, again skewing prices greatly. For example if Tanaka's salary is $500 lower because the company is partially paying for…

They aren't from my experience working in two major Japanese companies. Sometimes they'll pay your network bill if WFH is allowed, but that's basically it. Not sure about smaller companies, but honestly, I'd be surprised.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience I have friend living in Tokyo paying Regarding size, I was far more comfortable living in a ~550sqft 1LDK in Japan than I ever was in 800sqft-1000sqft apartments in North America - everything is geared to living in tighter quarters (from furniture to fridge to food packaging) making it much more convenient than trying to fit a full size couch into a sma…

10万円 = 100,000 yen, which is about: USD 675.18 EURO 683.40 GBP 588.43 For anyone who is interested but too lazy to search

We need a disclaimer since from ~last month FX has gone crazy, whether we are using old or new numbers. For me I'm still thinking 10万円 is:

USD ~1000 (a bit less, but just insignificant)

EUR 800~900

And virtually all articles you find today regarding real estate, USD vs JPY, etc. will be talking with old numbers. It's important to talk about the new numbers, but I'd wait a bit for them to stabilize before being "acktually the yen now is" in articles (I'm not saying parent comment is doing that, just warning that those people are everywhere).

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience I have friend living in Tokyo paying Regarding size, I was far more comfortable living in a ~550sqft 1LDK in Japan than I ever was in 800sqft-1000sqft apartments in North America - everything is geared to living in tighter quarters (from furniture to fridge to food packaging) making it much more convenient than trying to fit a full size couch into a sma…

10万円 = 100,000 yen, which is about: USD 675.18 EURO 683.40 GBP 588.43 For anyone who is interested but too lazy to search

Note that the JPY lost about 30% of value this year, while rent (nor wages, nor cost of living) haven't caught up to those figures. For the past few years, the JPY/USD rate was around 110.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience I have friend living in Tokyo paying Regarding size, I was far more comfortable living in a ~550sqft 1LDK in Japan than I ever was in 800sqft-1000sqft apartments in North America - everything is geared to living in tighter quarters (from furniture to fridge to food packaging) making it much more convenient than trying to fit a full size couch into a sma…

10万円 = 100,000 yen, which is about: USD 675.18 EURO 683.40 GBP 588.43 For anyone who is interested but too lazy to search

In terms of costs of living and salary percentage, 100,000 yen feels like it's around $1000 or so.

For context, a new grad will probably end up making around 200,000 - 250,000 yen (before taxes) a month at a lot of places.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#137
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know numbers about how much housing is sponsored by the companies in Japan? Maybe that's what is making the difference since it's not counted neither as salary, nor as the price of the house? I know some large companies sponsor partially or totally the housing of thousands of their employees, again skewing prices greatly. For example if Tanaka's salary is $500 lower because the company is partially paying for…

They aren't from my experience working in two major Japanese companies. Sometimes they'll pay your network bill if WFH is allowed, but that's basically it. Not sure about smaller companies, but honestly, I'd be surprised.

They definitely do, I was paid for it working at a Japanese company, and I know multiple personal cases where that happened as well (one was a dormitory, another full housing, and another partial housing). The internet is full of evidence that it happens, so my question is "how often?".

e.g. https://www.gtalent.jp/blog/japanwork-en/social-insurance-we... or https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/54fjgf/how_much_...

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#138

Should also be noted that Tokyo is one of the few major metropolises in the world where the price of housing has not meaningfully increased in real terms since 2000[1]. The Japanese constitution drastically limits zoning, building and land use restrictions. As a result the city of Tokyo builds more new housing than all of California or England.[2] (And no, this isn't because of Japan's demographics. While Japan as a…

Here's an archive of the FT piece to which the Vox article refers:

https://archive.ph/pVrex

Lots of additional detail.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#139

Outside of either aggressive capitalist desire to continuously lower wages or some groups wanting to destroy Japanese culture, I've never understood why there was such an extreme panic by some about Japan's lower birth rates to the point that they urged mass immigration there. A stabilizing population on an island with limited space seems like a good thing. A little more space opens up for living and real-estate pric…

The birth rate is so low around the world that we may see peak population by 2060 (worst case) and then an exponential decline. Quality of life will decrease as the number of old people drastically out numbers the young people.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you post examples of this ugliness? I’ve never been to Japan and am curious. I had never heard of this.

Pick a random spot in any suburb of Tokyo in Google Maps Street View and start exploring. Here's one: 亀戸中央通り商店街 https://maps.app.goo.gl/9yY4Ncb5oM3hXqLY6 It's not particularly hideous by Tokyo (or world) standards, it's just exactly what was described earlier, a random mishmash of houses and shops in various states of repair.

I’ve been to Tokyo and other cities in Japan, and I would gladly trade what you consider ugly for their cleanliness.

I live in Barcelona and not even Gaudi’s architecture can distract you from the amount of dog feces and piss that are rampant in this city, plus a considerably lack of cleaning in recent years for some reason.

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