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The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

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131–140 of 154 posts

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pink Floyd album "Animals" terms them "Dogs", "Sheep", and "Pigs", which is just as cynical (probably moreso) but also has the catchiness which Sociopath/Loser/Clueless exhibits but Opportunists/Pragmatists/Idealists does not.

That sounds like the album is using the allegories from George Orwell’s Animal Farm.

Yep, Animal Farm absolutely was an influence on that album

https://www.openculture.com/2017/04/pink-floyd-adapts-orwell...

> Orwell showed the effects of “undemocratic structures” by reducing individuals to animal types, and so does Waters, simplifying the classes further into three (and leaving out humans altogether): the ruling pigs, praetorian and aspiring capitalist dogs, and the sheep, the mindless masses.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#132
post #80

I hadn't realized it before today, but Jerry Pournelle (a science fiction writer) pioneered here (with two groups, not three, which is an advance in understanding.) "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people": First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational…

It reminds me of the quote: "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy". The thing about the Iron Rule (which I agree with) is that it appears in online forums too. In placaes like Wikipedia, Stack Overflow and various forums the community divides into three groups: 1. Content creators: those who past and answer questions, etc; 2. Moderators: those who write and enforce rules and sta…

> In placaes like Wikipedia, Stack Overflow and various forums the community divides into three groups:

> 1. Content creators: those who past and answer questions, etc;

> 2. Moderators: those who write and enforce rules and standards; and

Not that simple, especially on Wikipedia. Often but not always, the initial reputation of "moderators" is gained by being a "prolific contributor". Even after becoming a moderator, it's still common for one to continue contributing high-quality content. This system is commonly described as a "meritocracy" but not without vocal critics (on whether it's a true "meritocracy", and on whether "meritocracy" is a good system).

This creates a lot of complications. From my experience, many of the most toxic Wikipedia political struggles arise as a result of the conflicts between:

1. One's opinion about the subject in the article.

2. One's opinion about the quality of the article itself.

3. One's opinion about the editorial policy that is supposed to be applied to the article.

4. One's opinion about another editor as a person.

5. One's opinion about another editor's opinion on (2), (3), and (4).

I think the same thing happens in free and open source software projects as well.

I genuinely wonder what would be the outcome in an alternative system of which moderators are purely neutral observers and do not particulate or contribute content themselves, and what are the advantages and disadvantages in both systems.

I expect that the benefit is: reduced personal attachment on particular issues, and that would be helpful on reducing unnecessary conflicts. However, no personal attachment also means there's no personal motivation on actually solving the problems.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: will only the sociopath led medium-companies become large companies? Or do large companies choose a sociopath leadership while becoming large?

In my experience, every company eventually gets led by a sociopath. Every worker has the same story about how the old boss was so good to employees etc and then replaced by some ruthless profiteer. Companies prosper (profitableish, lots of innovation, employees are first) under the former, and are eventually pillaged and killed under the latter. I think our current economic/social climate forces the kind of gervais p…

I've totally seen this. A well regarded tech founder dies and is replaced with the head sales guy. Lord of the Flies reenactment ensues.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#134
post #109
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember watching it as a kid and realizing that cartoons could be not good... is it better several decades later?

There is a joke at some point in time where they say pathway electronics is going to merge with etech management. And they're gonna call the new company path-e-tech management. How would a kid get this joke?

Kids love puns that make groan folks grown.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#135

>(the office) I’ve been unable to figure out what makes it so devastatingly effective, and elevates it so far above the likes of Dilbert and Office Space. Dilbert is a hand drawn comic so it will never have the media reach of TV. It also tends to focus more on the details of the bureaucratic brokenness for people to laugh rather than cry at in daily life. The office is syndicated TV with a new episode every week. It…

Mike Judge is also devastatingly effective. I know people who can't watch Silicon Valley because it's too real.

That's me

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#136
post #20

It's really helpful to identify sociopaths. They know what's up and make things happen, but not friendship material. Kinda dangerous when you interact with one without noticing. Losers are cool and mostly harmless. The alphas can be a bit annoying sometimes, but most of them can be good friends.

I had a boss who was a complete and utter sociopath (by the article's definitions), but there were few people I'd rather go to the pub and have a pint with. Dangerous combination. Gotta watch out for those. What he couldn't otherwise make happen through force of will, he could through personality. He's the CIO at some middling company now, and there's no way I'd connect to him on LinkedIn.

[deleted]

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#137

>(the office) I’ve been unable to figure out what makes it so devastatingly effective, and elevates it so far above the likes of Dilbert and Office Space. Dilbert is a hand drawn comic so it will never have the media reach of TV. It also tends to focus more on the details of the bureaucratic brokenness for people to laugh rather than cry at in daily life. The office is syndicated TV with a new episode every week. It…

or Clerks if your are not white collar worker, worked in both environments and both Clerks and Office Space perfectly describe both environments

btw avoid Clerks III, it's unwatchable

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#138
post #92

>(the office) I’ve been unable to figure out what makes it so devastatingly effective, and elevates it so far above the likes of Dilbert and Office Space. Dilbert is a hand drawn comic so it will never have the media reach of TV. It also tends to focus more on the details of the bureaucratic brokenness for people to laugh rather than cry at in daily life. The office is syndicated TV with a new episode every week. It…

Adams did try an animated Dilbert series but it didn't do very well or last very long (and wasn't especially good). There was a time when I really liked Dilbert--probably in part because I worked at a cubicle farm tech company that probably resembled PacBell where Adams worked in quite a few ways. But Adams left (and I left) and, for the most part, Dilbert ended up mostly stuck in a 90s cubicle time warp notwithstand…

I for one really liked the animated series and reccommend fans of the comic to search it on utube

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#139
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's often the case that when a story is created, the creator(s) don't necessarily have this detailed philosophical/psychological overview of the characters and the essence of the show. Rather, they have their own life experiences and ideals for the story and characters("there's always that idiot boss and that one guy who does nothing"). Analyses like this one then provide us with a point of view that puts th…

I've tried to make this point before in conversation in relation to many forms of art and I just had to comment that your reply is very on the money and very concise. Gonna take some inspiration, as I've struggled many times to convey this. Most people just think that unless the artist "intended it", analysis is worthless.

There's a funny quote about Casanova along the lines of "in his literary work is deep philosophy, and in his philosophical work is incoherent rambling"

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#140
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adams did try an animated Dilbert series but it didn't do very well or last very long (and wasn't especially good). There was a time when I really liked Dilbert--probably in part because I worked at a cubicle farm tech company that probably resembled PacBell where Adams worked in quite a few ways. But Adams left (and I left) and, for the most part, Dilbert ended up mostly stuck in a 90s cubicle time warp notwithstand…

I for one really liked the animated series and reccommend fans of the comic to search it on utube

It had pretty wacky humour, and a lot of the office dynamics it talks about are still relatable today. I've seen several Gruntmaster 3000-esque projects since.
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