Slaves and serfs.
Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
131–140 of 155 posts
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#132An important factor seems to be precision engineering. I saw the point made in The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester, where they argue that while all the science and experimentation was there, it wasn't until precision parts were widely available that steam engines really solved all their problems and became viable https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35068671-the-per…
Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely. I used to use a lot of vintage German cameras. Really right up through the 1950s the tolerances were wide enough that no two cameras were exactly alike. The parts were all replaceable, and there were often adjustments & shims inside to keep things in spec. For example, one camera might have part A that's a little long so it's matching…
I was going to argue with you but luckily I checked first :-)
My argument was that Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy (one of the canonical works of precision engineering literature) was published in the early 1900's, but no, it was actually in 1970. (https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/M...)
Can't believe that I was that far off! I might have been thinking of Precision Hole Location, but even that wasn't published until the 1940's.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#133An important factor seems to be precision engineering. I saw the point made in The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester, where they argue that while all the science and experimentation was there, it wasn't until precision parts were widely available that steam engines really solved all their problems and became viable https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35068671-the-per…
Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely. I used to use a lot of vintage German cameras. Really right up through the 1950s the tolerances were wide enough that no two cameras were exactly alike. The parts were all replaceable, and there were often adjustments & shims inside to keep things in spec. For example, one camera might have part A that's a little long so it's matching…
Mad dad worked in airplane manufacturing. He once told a story about how every part in for something in a wing was in spec. But it was a foot to long all together. Not even close to fitting on the airplane
That was in 80s.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
The atmospheric steam engines which were first put to practical use did not require precise manufacturing. The cylinder and pistons were finished by hand and eyeballed for correctness (far from precise.) The gap was made up using leather seals and a layer of water sitting on top of the piston.
This just poses further questions as to why electric motors weren't popularized before the steam engine instead. They're so easy to make that it's entirely possible to make one out of a literal box of scraps. We have some records of batteries dating back far even to ancient Egypt, magnets can be found on the ground, the only real obstacle is making thin copper wire reliably I guess.
Electric motors have some of the same problems that steam engines do. You need very precise bearings because of the relationship between magnetic field and distance. You need lots of copper wire, as you mentioned, and while magnets might be "found on the ground" I don't know that powerful enough ones to be useful were known of.
It's easy to make a proof of concept electric motor. It's far more difficult to make a useful one.
And then, of course, you need a source of electricity to use them in the first place, whereas the steam engine just needed heat and water.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#135The follow up was recently discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32106467
Thanks! Macroexpanded:
Why wasn't the steam engine invented earlier? Part II - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32106467 - July 2022 (304 comments)
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
In particular, the standardization of units and measurements and the lathe. Lathes with accuracy were a tremendously important component of producing steam engines.
This is a great thesis because it can be falsified. The contention you are making is that between 1640 and 1690 the standardization of units of measurement and the invention of the lathe meant that Kalthoff (say) could not produce a viable steam engine in the 1640s, but Savery could successfully produce one in the 1690s. I suspect this thesis is false, but I wanted to state it here before I did any research into it.
Some basic research I think indicates we can rule out the standardization of units of measurement; there were no serious attempts at this in the timeframe in question.
Hard to say about the lathe; as the article notes, Wilkinson's work in cannon boring machines certainly made James Watt's life easier, but that was still way in the future (circa 1774) so there doesn't appear to be anything relevant to the timeframe the article is discussing.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#137An important factor seems to be precision engineering. I saw the point made in The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester, where they argue that while all the science and experimentation was there, it wasn't until precision parts were widely available that steam engines really solved all their problems and became viable https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35068671-the-per…
Another important factor was interest. It is noteworthy that fast development in the steam engine came after slavery started being outlawed everywhere. Before, moving machines powered by wind or steam were just an intellectual amusement (that was actually known since antiquity).
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#138An important factor seems to be precision engineering. I saw the point made in The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester, where they argue that while all the science and experimentation was there, it wasn't until precision parts were widely available that steam engines really solved all their problems and became viable https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35068671-the-per…
So then the next question is: why was precision engineering not developed earlier? One apparently plausible answer is that the perceived need did not arise earlier, but that leads into the question of what changed that perception? If the answer is "the development of the steam engine", we have a causal loop which is not clearly anchored to any particular time. One of the often-overlooked prerequisites for Watt's impr…
The progressive end of slavery is often quoted as a possible cause for the sudden interest in moving machines.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely. I used to use a lot of vintage German cameras. Really right up through the 1950s the tolerances were wide enough that no two cameras were exactly alike. The parts were all replaceable, and there were often adjustments & shims inside to keep things in spec. For example, one camera might have part A that's a little long so it's matching…
Resistor matching is still a thing to this day.
And also tube matching for us tube guitar amp users.
Re: Why wasn’t the steam engine invented earlier? Part III
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely. I used to use a lot of vintage German cameras. Really right up through the 1950s the tolerances were wide enough that no two cameras were exactly alike. The parts were all replaceable, and there were often adjustments & shims inside to keep things in spec. For example, one camera might have part A that's a little long so it's matching…
Mad dad worked in airplane manufacturing. He once told a story about how every part in for something in a wing was in spec. But it was a foot to long all together. Not even close to fitting on the airplane That was in 80s.
The entire fuselage for the last 737 NG to be built had to be scrapped, and a new one had to be fabricated by the supplier, because certain parts were so out of tolerance that the wings could not be fitted.
https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/status/11524425725533265...
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1427119
edit - “Mad Dad” - that’s either a great typo or great use of alliteration.