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Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

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Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#131

Post by Bud »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #41
bluecalm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3+2 is a lot of time to input the moves several times over and prepare coffee in the meantime. Seriously, it's not a slightest problem for a competent online blitz player. OTB cheating: there are many possible ways. The simplest one being having a script reading the moves from the live broadcast and feeding them to an engine and then sending the info to the player. Hans' strength magically decreased in the Sinquefiel…

> Hans' strength magically decreased in the Sinquefield cup once broadcast delay was introduced for example. So you discount a possibility that the controversy and allegations against him had at least some effect in him playing worse in the Sinquefield Cup? Anyway, there were studies out there that there were no statistical differences in his rating gains in tournaments broadcasted with delays and without it. Study b…

Yet earlier in this thread, you were incredulous about even the possibility that a chess game state could be entered into software or communicated during play. Which is clearly a ludicrously blind statement. So pardon us if it's hard to be particularly impressed by, well, whatever you are impressed or not impressed by. Because you don't seem to have much grasp on the basics involved, here.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#132

Post by boredtofears »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #20

Interesting piece. It highlights how it's hard to differentiate between someone genuinely playing at a level higher, and a cheater. A few things I noted from this article: 1. The driving force behind the original accusations is that Magnus felt his opponent wasn't "exerting" himself enough, compared to other young prodigies. 2. Chess.com's case is that his results are "statistically extraordinary." 3. There is a hist…

Wow that last bit seems like a rather important disclaimer that I didn't know about when this saga first unfolded.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#133

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

nordsieck wrote: post #108
t-writescode wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything .

> Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything . What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry?

>What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry?

People are on it for simply peeing in public. And teenage minors in a relationship sending nudes to each other due to a lack of "Romeo and Juliet" laws.

Not much is black & white.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#134

Post by raydiatian »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #101

> “Outside his online play, Hans is the fastest rising top player in Classical [over-the-board] chess in modern history,” the report says, while comparing his progress to the game’s brightest rising stars. “Looking purely at rating, Hans should be classified as a member of this group of top young players. While we don’t doubt that Hans is a talented player, we note that his results are statistically extraordinary.” I…

Yeah you pointed out something special here. It’s like those unsung Russian sub captains who didn’t start the nuclear apocalypse because they had an intuitive understanding between faulty and genuine threats. You can’t explain why you know something you just know it.

Besides, Magnus genuinely has never seemed like the guy to get petty and up and throw a fit, he’s lost plenty of times without doing such.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#135

Post by throwawaysleep »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #83
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

This is, I think, the single biggest factor in the proliferation of cheating. Most cheaters are smart enough to do the math on how they should win at the sport, or is smart enough to hire someone who can do the math. In other words, cheaters are rational actors. Allowing people back into the sport swings the EV math heavily in favor of cheating if the penalty isn't massive given that the chance of getting caught is s…

This is why I constantly cheated in school. I got caught once and the penalty was a 0 on the test and a talking to. And only because I was a cheating noob.

The benefits were in the thousands and thousands of scholarship dollars.

I cheat now in my employment. I work three full time jobs remotely and do the bare minimum in each. The risk is getting fired (and if I only get fired from two of the jobs, I am still ahead of honest work). The payoff is decades taken off my working life.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#136

Post by Bud »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #122
Bud wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. Really? I mean, not in baseball. Not in football. Not in basketball. Not even in President of the United States. What is this alternate reality you're in, and what is your list of "everything else"? Citations, please.

Citation: Pete Rose, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Curt Schilling will never get in the Hall of Fame. You're right that that's not "basically done," but once they're retired, HoF is all they have to look forward to. Being officially in disgrace is pretty done.

Yet I can cite hundreds of cases of cheating in all the major sports in which, yes, there was a suspension or other penalty, but the players or people involved were then allowed to participate again. The examples you cited are very extreme, but even in these cases, they don't support your argument. None of those players were removed from the game during their playing careers and barred. And again, those are just the most extreme cases. There are many, many less severe cases, all of which support my argument and not yours.

You might want to remove Schilling from your list, btw. He hasn't been accused of any cheating; instead, he did other embarrassing things.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#138

Post by andirk »

nordsieck wrote: post #108
t-writescode wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything .

> Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything . What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry?

Is there a National Murder Registry?

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#139

Post by freetime2 »

briandear wrote: post #97
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

Are we calling chess a sport?

I had the same thought. I don't have a particularly strong opinion about whether chess players should be called athletes or not, but this was the first time that I had ever seen chess players referred to as athletes.

The first result when you google "Are chess players athletes" says no [1], but I realize that this is more of an opinion piece. I would be curious to hear what more members of the competitive chess community think of the designation as athletes.

Edit: Upon further googling, I have learned that the IOC recognizes chess as a sport. Reading up further on how the matches last for 7+ hours, and how important physical conditioning is, I think it's totally valid to refer to chess players as athletes. In different sports there is wide spectrum of physical and mental demands - and I think chess just falls on the incredibly-demanding-mentally-but-less-demanding-physically end of the spectrum.

[1] https://herculeschess.com/are-chess-players-athletes/

[2] https://olympics.com/ioc/recognised-international-federation...

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#140

Post by sirshmooey »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #83
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

This is, I think, the single biggest factor in the proliferation of cheating. Most cheaters are smart enough to do the math on how they should win at the sport, or is smart enough to hire someone who can do the math. In other words, cheaters are rational actors. Allowing people back into the sport swings the EV math heavily in favor of cheating if the penalty isn't massive given that the chance of getting caught is s…

This aptly describes the modern state of thoroughbred horse racing. The sport is littered with these so called “super-trainers”. All of which possess precedent defying win percentages. It’s gotten so bad, a federal governing body has been tasked to combat it. The anti-doping rules will take effect this January [1].

[1] https://www.hisaus.org/about

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