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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#131

Post by cruano »

mijamo wrote: post #109
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #92

I think people focus too much on the actual car in this speculation. What about the service? Apple is really, really good at finding industries full of bullshit (computers in the 80's, mobile phones in the early 2000's) and saying, "okay, here's a slightly better looking product, with fewer features, and no more bullshit." The vehicle market is full of bullshit. Tesla took the same tactic and has knocked it down cons…

I don't think you can say Tesla is "no more bullshit". If anything they are the one adding shiny useless feature for the buzz, and having a terrible all touch UI that makes no sense for driving. The only car manufacturer that is "no more bullshit" would be Dacia and that's not the same segment. But they are indeed doing really well!

I mean, it's different bullshit at least no ?

Not having to deal with dealerships, actual software updates instead of just abandoning software (BlueLink anyone?), pushing maintenance from every 6 months to ~2 years

I don't own or want a Tesla, but its certainly different from the rest of the industry

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#132

Post by Tiktaalik »

A mild problem that Apple has is that they seem to spend a lot of time solving the sort of problems that a highly paid VP from California would have.

Being frustrated by the driving experience and trying to solve that problem is in that category, being focused on the sort of annoyances that people spending huge amounts of time driving to Cupertino would have.

Meanwhile city governments around the US and the world are trying very hard to reduce the amount of cars on the road.

Would be nice if Apple were thinking ahead and not contributing to the entrenchment of this 20th century technology.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#133

Post by alexyz12 »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #132

A mild problem that Apple has is that they seem to spend a lot of time solving the sort of problems that a highly paid VP from California would have. Being frustrated by the driving experience and trying to solve that problem is in that category, being focused on the sort of annoyances that people spending huge amounts of time driving to Cupertino would have. Meanwhile city governments around the US and the world are…

Theres no money in reducing the amount of cars on the road. There's no money in solving societies problems in general - who would pay for it?

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#134

Post by drewzero1 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #25

I don't even think about buying cars less than 10 years old or so. I have actually had better luck doing this than when I used to buy cars new or nearly-new. It weeds out the lemons and the owners who don't take care of their cars. Let someone else take the depreciation and find out how they hold up in the long term. Does Apple have any history of supporting its hardware for that long?

This is something that really worries me about current automotive trends. Carmakers tend to assume a 10-year lifespan for their vehicles, though last I saw the average age of cars on the road in the US is slightly higher than that[0]. My current car is approaching 30 and I'm planning to replace it with something closer to 10-15 in the near future, old enough to avoid touchscreens and new enough to not be destroyed by rust (yet).

With vehicles incorporating more technology, I'm concerned they might stop lasting long enough for rust to be an issue. Tech companies have already perfected a model of planned obsolescence. If cars start becoming obsolete and unusable as fast as tech products do, they won't have a chance to depreciate enough for me to afford one.

0: https://ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/average-age-of-vehic...

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#136

Post by hindsightbias »

fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

> functionality everyone wants

Depressing if manufacturers and users want more chip/software dependencies after the last two years of supply chain fun.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#137

Post by scarface74 »

boringg wrote: post #96
xxpor wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have that much cash on hand, is it really?

I mean how much of a return can carplay generate on an initial investment of 8 billion and on-going OPEX even if selling to all the manufacturers (which it isn't). I think the point is that it was unlikely their intention to be building solely for carplay and an actual car was a bonus. However if they wind down the hardware play of an actual car this could be something that soften those sunk costs.

If it convinced people to buy high margin iPhones a lot. Not to mention with the push into services, what’s the lifetime value of an iPhone customer.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#138

Post by scarface74 »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #127
bergenty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what you mean by “boring” but CarPlay is fantastic. It works really well and covers most things I’d like to do with a central console.

CarPlay does not work well at all on my 2018 Golf. There's a multitude of obvious, awful bugs. (eg. audio directions not occurring, but nonetheless ducking spotify audio for them)

How much of that is the fault of shitty CarPlay hardware in most cars? We see how well things like AirPlay works when Apple controls both ends of the hardware.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#139

Post by jedberg »

Apple doesn't get into low margin businesses. They get into an adjacent business. A prime example is TVs. There is no Apple TV set. There is AppleTV, a high margin add on for any TV with HDMI that makes it "just work".

They had the chance to buy a cellular carrier, but chose not to, because it's low margin. Instead they make a phone that works on any carrier.

Cars are a low margin business. But a car add-on could be a high margin business. They already have CarPlay, but I can see them making a hardware add-on for cars.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#140

Post by runlevel1 »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #23

Given the number of times I've seen a reported, verified bug in OS X be "fixed" by hiding the bug from the public tracker and marking it "will not fix," I would have a hard time ever trusting a car made by Apple. Apple also makes their products to be disposable, seemingly as part of the culture, while a well-made electric car can run to a million miles over 50+ years. That's a very different build philosophy. The key…

> a well-made electric car can run to a million miles over 50+ years.

That remains to be seen.

You mention Tesla as an alternative, but they're well-known for their fit and finish and repairability issues.[1][2]

Apple's software fit and finish has taken a dive. My Tesla isn't much better. (ex: I couldn't move my headrest for a month.) Poke around teslamotorsclub.com and you'll find all kinds of silly bugs that drag on.

> free navigation for the Tesla

Tesla builds 8 years of connectivity into the initial sticker cost, after that they will be charging.[3] Apple will probably charge too if it also includes network connectivity.

> Pandora? Spotify? Waze? Meh. Sorry.

Apple is especially bad about lock-in. I understand Pandora, Spotify, and Waze are installable on CarPlay (I haven't tried them), but there's still plenty of walled garden stuff going on elsewhere.

[1]: https://www.thedrive.com/news/34144/the-tesla-model-y-is-alr... [2]: https://www.thedrive.com/news/41493/teslas-16000-quote-for-a... [3]: https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/23281022/tesla-standard-d...

EDIT: Add bit about software quality.

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