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Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

alistair.blog

131–140 of 169 posts

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#131

Rooting for you guys. If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up. If people are attempting to evade homework it's because it isn't interesting to the student, which hints at a deeper problem that the school/teacher/entire school set-up and structure needs to address. They essentially need to throw out everything they've set up because they're operating it more…

>If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up.

I played basketball growing up. Much of our practice was boring things like passing drills, dribbling drills, running, countless free throws. We all grumbled & complained - "Why can't we just scrimmage?" we'd ask. "I already know how to play the game, why do I need to work on these boring skills?"

I don't think I need to explain why this logic is flawed, and why our coach was in fact using the best methods to teach even if they were occasionally boring.

In the academic world I was very similar to these guys. I automated/cheated with tech whenever I could because I felt the grunt work was "below me" - fast forward to college and I realized how many fundamentals I had missed and struggled mightily.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#132

Reminds me of a passion project I started in high school that went completely viral and took on a life of its own. Wrote a small script for my friends to check their AP scores a few days early. Required high schoolers giving clear text access to their entire CollegeBoard account so I could log on and scrape their scores. Somehow it got posted to Reddit and from that year on, grew wildly. Got to almost 2 million stude…

Can you elaborate on the approach? This sounds really interesting but I don't quite understand from reading your comment and https://earlyscores.com/about/ I think I remember paying some small amount of money (flat fee irrespective of # of years, IIRC) to get my scores quicker via a phone call in 2003,2004,2005. Perhaps I would've been better served by your EarlyScores.

The approach was fairly simple: access to the college board’s website was geo-IP restricted for about 5 days time. It would start with a small collection of states, and each day over the five days another group of states would get access to the site starting at ~8:00am EST. I would get a few AWS/GCP/DigitalOcean nodes in a DC that had an IP in a state releasing on the first day. Put a small JS script on the nodes that would use the username and password input from students to sign in to their Account and send back the scores. Basically just a proxy without the need for configuration.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#133
Really cool, I was also using an exploit with my GCSE Hegarty maths homework and doddle science, I think the 1st "exploit" was pre-GCSE the answers were stored on the client side and I just inspected the code, this got patched after, the next exploit was during my GCSE's, the answers were stored on the server so I made a github repo that used a browser extension which would let you inject JS, I think it was some kind of brute force attack with their SQL DB.

Anyway I received my GCSE results in August, I was surprised how well I did considering I did no revision, but I should've actually used hegarty maths instead of exploiting it :D

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#134
Heh, I started coding (in python) when I was about 15. One of my nerdy interests that motivated it was "historical" crypto (vigenère, etc). But another one of the first things I wrote was a script that would factor quadratic equations for me, in order to do my math homework for me. I really hated that kind of repetitive homework, where every night for weeks on end we'd have 25 equations to factor or whatever, even when I had already "gotten it".

It was pretty dumb, using the exact "algorithms" we were taught to do it by hand. It would even "show the work" so I could transcribe it. In the end, it probably took as much time to input the homework into the program, and then transcribe all the answers, making sure to fake it so it looked like I did the work, as just doing the homework. Not to mention actually writing the program, but that part was really fun. I remember turning on a small night light when I was supposed to be past bed time so I could scribble down algorithms or solutions to bugs on a piece of paper so I could implement them the next day.

If I had been a bit smarter, I might have realized that I could have used a CAS that already existed. Not sure if there were many open-source ones (that could run on windows) back then (2003-2004) though, just looked and sympy was released in 2007.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#135

Rooting for you guys. If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up. If people are attempting to evade homework it's because it isn't interesting to the student, which hints at a deeper problem that the school/teacher/entire school set-up and structure needs to address. They essentially need to throw out everything they've set up because they're operating it more…

>If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up. I played basketball growing up. Much of our practice was boring things like passing drills, dribbling drills, running, countless free throws. We all grumbled & complained - "Why can't we just scrimmage?" we'd ask. "I already know how to play the game, why do I need to work on these boring skills?" I don't think I nee…

The dependencies still need not be taught in a boring way. For example, if teachers did surveys of students strongest interests and goals, they can think of ways to 'inject' (in a genuine way) dependencies as stepping stones to their goals. "In order to achieve goal X, you need to know how to do Y, and in order to know how to do Y, you need to know how to do Z". Let's assume Z is the boring task. Just by connecting it in a sequence to the student's goals it becomes less boring because the student instantly sees the relevance.

Contrast this with "Do this" "Why?" "Just do as I say if you want good grades"

So in practice this would be "Ben, I know your most important goal is to become like LeBron James. LeBron James has this special trick that you like called X. He has said in the past that the fastest way to achieve this is to practice Y boring technique for at least 2 hours a day"

"John, your most important goal is greater flexibility. To be as flexible as possible, you need to do this other boring exercise more frequently 3 hours a day"

If the goal is important enough, they will go through it. However, an even wiser method is to frame it this way: In your brain you have the 'you-now'/thalamic/elephant part of your brain "Give me candy now" and the 'you-in-the-future'/cortical/mouse riding elephant "I have to lose weight". These 2 are always competing, but the 'elephant' always wins. In order to solve this, one has to research what is it that 'tastes good', and develop a diet that tastes better than the junk they already eat. If you do that, you'll stick with your diet long-term. Why? Because your diet is always the best tasting thing on the menu.

The dumb approach is to say "I'm going to force myself"... you'll burn out eventually. Reference: "Immediate Rewards Predict Adherence to Long-Term Goals" https://sci-hub.hkvisa.net/10.1177/0146167216676480

In other words, the higher-level abstract representation of this is both the 'elephant' or the 'you-now' has to be as maximally satisfied (given its range of options, the 'best' one is the most fun one), and the 'mouse thats trying to direct the elephant' or the 'you-in-the-future' also gets what it wants.

Put simpler: if you don't have fun, it will never get done.

Emphasizing relevance is in the spirit of just-in-time learning. To give an example, years ago, I struggled to learn programming for a long time. I'd watch 11 hour courses, and nothing would stick. "Today, for-loops, and conditionals..." In my mind: 'who cares? How is this relevant to the thing I'm trying to do?'

It wasn't until I found a meaningful goal and exciting project that still was simple enough, and broke it down into a series of 'google-able steps' that I finally learned and remembered what a "for loop" meant.

The irrelevant rote approach is not a good method of memorization or learning. More intuitive approaches which try to build on your existing background (reducing the friction), and your existing goals (increasing attraction), are more likely to help you remember.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#136
post #122

Given the modern division of labour, people are more often than not an expert at whatever they do for a living. It makes me think that high school is still too generalized. I think I only got to pick about half my courses and even those had to fit into certain bins. Couldn’t do too many tech courses. Had to have an arts course each year. Stuff like that. If students have _any_ personal inclination towards any course…

I'm not sure I agree. In the UK we kind of have that: 16-18 you can drop all but 3-4 subjects, with no restrictions. But as university courses often have specific requirements, that means you're pretty much deciding on your degree area at 16. That's a lot to decide so young.

Some of us decided younger than that. As long as there's no "you have to decide" push I don't see the harm in allowing it.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up. I played basketball growing up. Much of our practice was boring things like passing drills, dribbling drills, running, countless free throws. We all grumbled & complained - "Why can't we just scrimmage?" we'd ask. "I already know how to play the game, why do I need to work on these boring skills?" I don't think I nee…

The dependencies still need not be taught in a boring way. For example, if teachers did surveys of students strongest interests and goals, they can think of ways to 'inject' (in a genuine way) dependencies as stepping stones to their goals. "In order to achieve goal X, you need to know how to do Y, and in order to know how to do Y, you need to know how to do Z". Let's assume Z is the boring task. Just by connecting i…

Most people aren't going to be interested in what is taught in school. Is there a way to get such a person interested? Maybe in some cases, but not everything in life will be interesting and engaging. Sometimes hard work and diligence are simply required.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#138
"Cruically, our teachers could see how many times we've watched the video..."

This sounds like it's normalizing invasive surveillance. Getting kids used to the notion that their teachers should be able to monitor their online educational activities... and then, if governments and corporations are tracking all your internet activity, email communications, phone location data - it's just the way things are done! Now have a social credit score, it's like a grade in life...

That said, I wonder if there's a similar approach, some scripts users could run to artificially boost their social credit score (in China, for example). Just something that would run in the background - it could send pithy positive tweets, visit all the government-approved websites, etc. - all with no need for the user to be involved.

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#139

Rooting for you guys. If anything this should cause some people to question the very educational structure they've set up. If people are attempting to evade homework it's because it isn't interesting to the student, which hints at a deeper problem that the school/teacher/entire school set-up and structure needs to address. They essentially need to throw out everything they've set up because they're operating it more…

> Instead of saying "What are we doing that isn't capturing the students interest in these tasks? How can we connect this subject to the students most meaningful, important, and immediate concerns and goals? What concepts from this subject can we teach the student that'll help them achieve those salient goals?"

While this is not a bad question to ask, asking it won't avoid this kind of thing. Because it doesn't matter what the learning system is, or how good it is, many students will always do stuff like this if they can. Because it's fun. Because you get to stick it to authority.

Whether that authority is just or has your best interests at heart or is trying as hard as they can to do a good job is beside the point when you're young...

Re: Avoiding homework with code and getting caught

#140
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still do this on my iPhone. As long as you keep the bit count the same i.e. changing 12 points to 99 the code signing passes and you don’t need to do anything but edit the hex.

It sounds like you're saying iPhones have an easily exploitable code signing vulnerability. It's that correct?

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