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Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

reuters.com

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Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#131

Post by superjan »

int_19h wrote: post #110

There's a curious comment on that article from a person in support of that retention law: "Google can do that [blanket data collection], my Chinese mobile phone manufacturer too, why shouldn't the government be able to do it?" Something to ponder when we talk about data collection by private parties: like it or not, it does provide justification for governments doing the same.

It works the other way too: If a politician objects to FAANG privacy violations, they should not introduce laws that allow such violations themselves.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#132

Post by VLM »

themitigating wrote: post #74
whimsicalism wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might view it as giving legitimacy to a process.

The process of voting is legitimate. Does giving legitimacy to voting accomplish anytime? What about protesting the system by not voting, does that do anything?

The way they've done it for decades where I live, is party A and party B serve the same master on all substantial issues, so pick a "hot button" social issue that neither side will ever do anything about and have A and B take opposing views. Then do some gatekeeping where both parties and the media agree to push hard propaganda that voting 3rd party is "throwing your vote away".

The people in charge are the ones who pick the two almost identical candidates. There will be no change in economic or foreign policy regardless of winner.

(Edited, the other way is to push hard core identity politics where demographic groups are owned by certain parties, so voting has all the legitimacy of a mere census. The only way to influence policy would be having (or not having) children)

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#133

Post by kwhitefoot »

anony999 wrote: post #30
Longhanks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t Texas exit the US in the same way that European countries can exit the EU?

Technically the answer is yes. In practice I believe there would be civil war before that happens.

> Technically the answer is yes.

Really? You mean that there is something in the US Constitution that explicitly allows a state to secede?

"In the public debate over the Nullification Crisis the separate issue of secession was also discussed. James Madison, often referred to as "The Father of the Constitution", strongly opposed the argument that secession was permitted by the Constitution.[29] In a March 15, 1833, letter to Daniel Webster (congratulating him on a speech opposing nullification), Madison discussed "revolution" versus "secession":

    I return my thanks for the copy of your late very powerful Speech in the Senate of the United S. It crushes "nullification" and must hasten the abandonment of "Secession". But this dodges the blow by confounding the claim to secede at will, with the right of seceding from intolerable oppression. The former answers itself, being a violation, without cause, of a faith solemnly pledged. The latter is another name only for revolution, about which there is no theoretic controversy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#135

Post by tomrod »

joker99 wrote: post #85
Etheryte wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, doesn't Germany have the equivalent of a constitutional watchdog? For example in Estonia, the president fills this role (as do some other constitutions, but the president is a good example in this context). The president is otherwise a purely ceremonial figurehead in Estonia, but one functional role they fill is that before any new bill becomes law, they have to sign off on it and declare it's const…

We do, pretty much the same as your situation. However, it doesn't happen very often that the Bundespräsident actually does this. Their role is almost purely ceremonial and I could count the cases on one hand where they used this power. Some legal professionals argue, that this check is basically a ceremonial one as well.

If one thing I've learned the past decade, it is that "ceremonial" functions can be disrupted by people who don't respect the precedent.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#136

Post by caskstrength »

int_19h wrote: post #110

There's a curious comment on that article from a person in support of that retention law: "Google can do that [blanket data collection], my Chinese mobile phone manufacturer too, why shouldn't the government be able to do it?" Something to ponder when we talk about data collection by private parties: like it or not, it does provide justification for governments doing the same.

Because neither Google nor your Chinese mobile phone manufacturer can put you in jail.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#137

Post by dane-pgp »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #99
dane-pgp wrote: post #2

I'd be interested to know if the EU law that the ECJ relied on differs from or goes further than the case law from the European Court of Human Rights that the UK is still a member of. A ruling against mass data retention in the UK could help Privacy International in their on-going case against the government for its mass surveillance and use of "bulk personal datasets". https://www.privacyinternational.org/long-read/…

Doesn't sound great: "allows, for the purposes of safeguarding national security, an instruction to be given requiring providers of electronic communications services to retain, generally and indiscriminately, traffic and location data in situations where the Member State concerned is confronted with a serious threat to national security that is shown to be genuine and present or foreseeable. Such an instruction must…

> just asking for a "perma-emergency" to justify such an exception for a long time

For context, I thought I'd look up the current UK "National Threat Level", and it is apparently "Substantial", which is the middle value on a 5 point scale, and the lowest it has ever been since the system was introduced in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Threat_Levels

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#138

Post by Archelaos »

sveme wrote: post #117
Longhanks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t Texas exit the US in the same way that European countries can exit the EU?

Out of curiosity: can Swiss cantons leave the Swiss confederation?

The 26 cantons are mentioned in the Swiss constitution by name. If one wants to leave, the constitution would have to be changed. So a canton can only leave, if a majority of the whole people as well as the cantons voted in favour.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#139

Post by Archelaos »

IntrepidWorm wrote: post #120
anony999 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically the answer is yes. In practice I believe there would be civil war before that happens.

If the threat of secession requires going to war over, it would seem that no, secession is not a legally supported process.

But could it not be possible to allow the secession of a state by an ammentment to the constition?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#140

Post by unity1001 »

therealmarv wrote: post #108

hold on, what Germany wanted to do (blanket data retention) is a reality for a long time in other states in EU. There are many countries collecting for 6+ months all connection data (e.g. France or Spain). A map is in this German article from 2019 https://netzpolitik.org/2019/vorratsdatenspeicherung-in-euro... So this becomes illegal in other EU member states now too? Does anybody have any inside how this will change…

I believe you have to retain tax-related data (customer invoices, bills, payments etc) for ~2 years or however long your local jurisdisction requires. I don't think that will go away since such laws mirror the long-standing laws used in normal accounting. This should be related to non-ecommerce related data.
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