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Don't ignore the janitor

happychasing.substack.com

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Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#131

Post by yosito »

_8j50 wrote: post #106

I try to avoid strangers. If I was a janitor I wouldn't want people bothering me, especially because they feel bad for me or they feel guilty. You shouldn't be rude and I have no problem with and do nod/smile at cleaning/security/service staff but I am not good at smalltalk or whatever so I treat everyone the same and ignore people unless I know them and have something to talk about. I really dislike insincere or for…

Yep. I live in a city and see thousands of people every day. Just because I don't talk to or notice most of them doesn't mean a thing about their value as human beings. I was expecting this article to have some kind of lesson about how sometimes the people we look down on can surprise us, so we shouldn't be so quick to judge. But instead it was basically a condescending humble brag about being nice to people seen as lower than you.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#132

Post by 3qz »

greendude29 wrote: post #39

Is...being decent to everyone regardless of job status in life a new thing? Has tech come so far that we have to re-teach ourselves the basics and then brag about how we smile at "service staff"? Up next in a techbro blog post: "I have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness, and that being an asshole isn't a good thing."

It’s hard to talk to people who make 10x less than you and live in a HCOL city without making somebody feel like shit. Janitors have terrible lives and I’m sure both of us would rather not discuss it.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#133

Post by saurik »

bennyp101 wrote: post #117
saurik wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get being nice to janitors--and I am happy to help them with something if asked, and I don't "ignore" them as noted in this article as I definitely agree that's rude to treat them as second-class humans unworthy of being regarded with eye contact or banter--but I am being paid to do my job and they are being paid to their job and if I am spending my time or mental energy doing part of their job then I feel like…

I bet you don't clear your table at McDonalds either :p

I actually do, but the reasoning isn't because I am deluding myself into thinking I am being kind to the employees (it is because I am trying to be kind to the customers, by making the food cheaper). I realize you want to be nice to other people, but you should realize you are doing it wrong (or at least doing it to a different set of people than you intended)... as noted, I treat the janitors with respect and don't ignore them and even do things they ask me to do as I tend to know who they are in a way most people don't (partly as I tend to be the only person still hanging around in the middle of the night, but also because I don't have any issue talking to them as I don't do the bad thing the article is complaining about). I have even hired janitors for my spaces and I make sure to pay them well and treat them with respect. You aren't being kind to people when you pick up their job function... you just aren't.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#134

Post by 3qz »

deltasevennine wrote: post #12

I ignore the janitor because of the obvious wealth disparity between us. He works just as hard as me but is doing a job nobody likes and is paid less for it. It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about. This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.

I agree with this. Talking to the janitor just makes both of us feel bad.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#136

Post by saurik »

mathieuh wrote: post #115
saurik wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get being nice to janitors--and I am happy to help them with something if asked, and I don't "ignore" them as noted in this article as I definitely agree that's rude to treat them as second-class humans unworthy of being regarded with eye contact or banter--but I am being paid to do my job and they are being paid to their job and if I am spending my time or mental energy doing part of their job then I feel like…

I don't know about other people but I go through my life trying to make things easier for other people, or failing that at least not make things harder, in the hope that someone else will do the same for me.

The people at a company are all hired to fill specific positions and accomplish specific tasks. The entire goal of working for a living isn't kind to begin with. Here: let's say you literally donated your time every night to do the janitor's job entirely, so they didn't have to do anything, as you love cleaning anyway and it makes you feel really happy to see them not having to do all of this work... now the janitor is going to be fired, because the janitor isn't adding value to the company anymore. It is frustrating to be sure, but if you want to actually show solidarity with workers in a capitalist system it involves realizing that the incentives are already screwed up.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#137

Post by saurik »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #83
saurik wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get being nice to janitors--and I am happy to help them with something if asked, and I don't "ignore" them as noted in this article as I definitely agree that's rude to treat them as second-class humans unworthy of being regarded with eye contact or banter--but I am being paid to do my job and they are being paid to their job and if I am spending my time or mental energy doing part of their job then I feel like…

I take this type of mindset often. It's something I'm trying to change. The better mindset, in my opinion, is that you can choose to do something nice for others for no reason other than to help someone else out.

The point I was making is that someone else's job isn't being nice to them, because you aren't doing something nice FOR THEM you are instead doing something nice FOR THEIR EMPLOYER as the amount of money they are paid or the load of tasks they are being given will adjust behind the scenes. It isn't intuitive, but once pointed out I hope it becomes obvious? If you do enough of their job for them, they get fired :(. If you cause then enough work, maybe you can get them a raise. (And yes: capitalism sucks like this if this makes you feel bad somehow, but you are moving in the wrong direction if you are trying to work on it: you should strive to have solidarity with workers!)

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#138

Post by saurik »

xmprt wrote: post #90
chillwaves wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like 10 seconds of your time.

It takes even less time if they were already planning on walking from the trashcan to a central location anyway.

Or you could actually try to help the janitor by NOT doing that so they still can get paid to do it. These are people who are often looking for hours and picking up multiple jobs and you seriously think you are helping them by doing literally any of their job for them? (FWIW, I also haven't ever experienced a janitor asking me to do this kind of stuff for them and I am actually the only person at the various buildings I work at who has bothered to talk to the janitors, because I actually try to treat them like humans who have needs.)

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#139

Post by actionfromafar »

inglor_cz wrote: post #114
lambdasquirrel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the janitors in my high school once gave us a lecture on linear algebra. I don't know what he did before he left the former Warsaw Pact country he was from, but it was one of those whoa kind of experiences.

In the 1990s, when the former USSR had gone to shit, you could meet a lot of menial workers from the ex-Soviet republics who had academic degrees and could hold a conversation to prove it. I studied mathematics in Prague in 1996-2003. More than once I met a janitor or a taxi driver who, albeit with a heavy Russian or Ukrainian accent, knew what a uniformly continuous function was and what does the Chinese Remainder T…

I hope those days don't come back. This migration wave hopefully can get jobs more according to their area of expertise.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#140

Post by rvba »

geocrasher wrote: post #123

I recently witnessed a customer treating a food server at a small Chinese restaurant quite badly. It was a very upsetting because she is such a sweet woman who really takes her job seriously. Next time she was at our table I commented to her that people who treat her like garbage are simply showing their inner self, which is in fact garbage. Indeed you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat people who are i…

Isnt it common knowledge that if you treat people handling your food badly they will spit into it? (Obviously not all of them)
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