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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#131

Post by drcross »

xbmcuser wrote: post #103
NoPicklez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to your general rule statement. There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times. Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not t…

Partly I agree and its the reason I have been disappointed specially in Toyota trying to protect it cash cow and supply chain. They are not really getting into electric cars. Even today they are trying to hedge with hydrogen fuel cars its as they feel hydrogen cars will require the least amount of changes for their supply chain.

My suspicion is that Toyota is trying for a "too big to fail" move. Get bailed out by the governments to keep the jobs going.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#132

Post by benj111 »

shrubble wrote: post #31
bombcar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of a motor on each wheel independent has obviously been considered, but what is often ignored is the sprung vs unsprung weight. You could develop a pretty amazing off-road vehicle with independent electric motors in each wheel, but it would be a relatively bumpy ride.

The Mercedes 300SL, the Gull Wing of 1954, already had inboard-mounted brakes to reduce unpsrung weight. I would assume that any Mercedes engineer would be familiar with the concept...

The 2cv did this as well. I'm undecided if this supports your argument though.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#133

Post by jeffreygoesto »

gridder wrote: post #17
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Radar is working hard to get towards higher resolution and classification quality. From what I know, it is the closest competitor because it is active sensing and complements camera properties even better than LIDAR. In adverse conditions LIDAR and Cameras have similar failure modes, which is not good.

I do agree that cameras an ML on the images seems to be stuck at the next plateau of scene understanding performance. An impressive one, admitted, but still not sufficient. For real emergency reactions with highway speeds you need to assess situations about a quarter mile away basically.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#134

Post by drcross »

chell830 wrote: post #92
gzer0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

> Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it. Waymo launched their commercial robo-taxi service in 2017. It’s still running today. Open to the public [1]. Meanwhile, Tesla is phasing out their FSD program. Beta-testers, 98 safety score, $15K cost, whatever, current Tesla owners are pissed off. FSD is a sinking ship, just like the Tesla/Elon brand. They used to be cool. [1] h…

You obviously haven't seen the FSD upgrade that was released yesterday.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#135

Post by drcross »

arcticbull wrote: post #89
gzer0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

Well, except not running over mannequins of kids. [1] You know, the simple stuff. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ

This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week. It's a total smear campaign by a competitor.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#136

Post by benj111 »

jacquesm wrote: post #110
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles In car terminology you have only one rear axle (which is all of the unsprung weight in the back) and two driveshafts, I think you meant driveshaft (unless you have a six wheel Tesla...).

Stub axles?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#137

Post by ZeroGravitas »

elif wrote: post #36

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious: -ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars -the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns -motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part Normally each of these i'd…

It's similar to the ones that say:

Solid state batteries will let the companies that aren't doing EVs yet catch up, and fix all the terrible, terrible problems current EVs have so don't buy an EV right now, please, don't buy our competitors products that are available now.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#138

Post by hahaxdxd123 »

drcross wrote: post #135
arcticbull wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, except not running over mannequins of kids. [1] You know, the simple stuff. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ

This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week. It's a total smear campaign by a competitor.

oh https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766646026084359

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#139

Post by lvturner »

albertopv wrote: post #81
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Living in an area with an above average number of hyper-cars on the road. There is every possibility that they will be banned for noise or pollution. The roar of a Ferrari engine is unmistakable even at low speeds (especially when compared to the noise of an EV or hybrid)

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#140

Post by hahaxdxd123 »

drcross wrote: post #134
chell830 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it. Waymo launched their commercial robo-taxi service in 2017. It’s still running today. Open to the public [1]. Meanwhile, Tesla is phasing out their FSD program. Beta-testers, 98 safety score, $15K cost, whatever, current Tesla owners are pissed off. FSD is a sinking ship, just like the Tesla/Elon brand. They used to be cool. [1] h…

You obviously haven't seen the FSD upgrade that was released yesterday.

Haven't you people been saying this for 2 years now?
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