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Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

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Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#131

Post by is_true »

dgs_sgd wrote: post #97
chownie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are exercise highs real? Do all people experience them or is it a genetic niche? I've tried a bunch of different exercise methods. Gone running, swimming, weightlifting etc and I've never experienced anything close to a high afterward. I'll be tired, sometimes I'll feel proud of breaking a personal record but there's never any physical positive sensation or euphoria to me that would resemble the "runners high" that p…

From personal experience I believe the "runner's high" is very real. It didn't happen often, but sometimes 40-60 minutes in to a long run I would enter a state of flow and euphoria. It felt like I was effortlessly gliding across the ground and would last for as long as I kept running and a short time afterward.

This. I'm kind of able to trigger it by changing how I run after about 5k and focusing 100% on running. Eyes on the floor and just push.

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#132

Post by ip26 »

trellad wrote: post #20

Anna Lembke’s “Dopamine Nation” has a lot of interesting takes on the subject. One takeaway I got is that dopamine seeks a balance. Opting for pleasure seeking often ends up getting experienced as pain. An example of that is drug tolerance. Oddly, the reverse is also true: seeking pain can often lead to an experience of pleasure. The invigorated feeling after a cold shower, or how hard exercise leads to highs. She is…

It’s not really that odd. Your body releases dopamine in response to cold-shock or exercise, presumably to help you perform under moderate stress.

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#133

Post by hinkley »

cantSpellSober wrote: post #86

If you get degenerative chronic illness are you eventually just as happy as you were before it? No, we figured this out in the 70s. Why is "Hedonic Treadmill" forced into blogspam titles like these? Was there a TED Talk recently? > Variators are little modulations that keep experiences fresh So... variety ? Mind blown.

Hedonic treadmill had been in a couple of threads last week. I suspect a mix of people being primed and noticing other articles on it and posting them here, with a dash of karma farming. And to the extent that such clusters are real or imagined, possibly a but of observer bias on my part. If the latter, then just a coincidence.

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#134

Post by hinkley »

bndr wrote: post #73

Shameless plug, I wrote an article recently on how the hedonic treadmill affects development culture [1]. In my opinion, good approach to avoiding the hedonic treadmill is to think in “processes” rather than “goals.” If you achieve some goal, you get back to the equilibrium and get used to it. But if you’re on a journey, there’s nothing to adapt to as every day is a journey and brings something new. So it's like smal…

Some of us say if you aren’t embarrassed by code you wrote 18 months ago that you aren’t learning fast enough. I think people who feel that way would in general agree that we should be constantly improving, not looking for status quo.

If the cost of maintaining your code grows logarithmically - and many projects do worse than this - then you have to constantly be finding ways to go faster just to keep getting the same amount of new logic into the system. This is something sometimes lost on people fixated on story points. They don’t notice that story points three years ago were “worth” more than story points today. Or maybe they do but they can’t prove it or even really name it. That would explain some of the friction I sometimes see with management.

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#135

Post by hinkley »

RandomLensman wrote: post #21

Not directly on the treadmill, but removing things that regularly create unhappiness really creates lasting uplift. There is no adjustment that brings back proper misery again.

I have noticed that sometimes if you fix half a problem, other people will suddenly care and want to fix it the rest of the way. I have been known to “set the table” so it’s easier to finish something I’ve started, so I can come back to them later, or move on to something else if someone else finds the time before I can get back to it. Sometimes I have too many irons in the fire and these little enticements help get things done that I don’t have time and energy to do properly.

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#136

Post by kelseyfrog »

chownie wrote: post #66
trellad wrote: post #20

Anna Lembke’s “Dopamine Nation” has a lot of interesting takes on the subject. One takeaway I got is that dopamine seeks a balance. Opting for pleasure seeking often ends up getting experienced as pain. An example of that is drug tolerance. Oddly, the reverse is also true: seeking pain can often lead to an experience of pleasure. The invigorated feeling after a cold shower, or how hard exercise leads to highs. She is…

Are exercise highs real? Do all people experience them or is it a genetic niche? I've tried a bunch of different exercise methods. Gone running, swimming, weightlifting etc and I've never experienced anything close to a high afterward. I'll be tired, sometimes I'll feel proud of breaking a personal record but there's never any physical positive sensation or euphoria to me that would resemble the "runners high" that p…

I've experienced runner's high. Not regularly, but on occasion. After completing the couch to 5k(C25K)[1] program and running a 5K every other day for a couple years.

One in a while, I've have a great day, the music would kick in, and I'd get a runner's high. It feels like a sense of euphoria combined with frisson - the same sort of frisson I'll get when listening to just the right song at the right time. The crown of of my head would have an intense tingling feeling not some times when I've smoked cannabis.

It never lasted for long - maybe 3-5 mins tops, and I'd expect that it would fade quickly if I had stopped running. I don't believe it was associated with any distorted thinking that drugs are typically associated with - it's simply a powerful boost in positive mood.

1. http://www.c25k.com/

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#138

Post by human_person »

cantSpellSober wrote: post #86

If you get degenerative chronic illness are you eventually just as happy as you were before it? No, we figured this out in the 70s. Why is "Hedonic Treadmill" forced into blogspam titles like these? Was there a TED Talk recently? > Variators are little modulations that keep experiences fresh So... variety ? Mind blown.

My understanding is happiness will revert to the baseline if you have a set loss such as going blind or losing a limb. But a degenerative illness implies continued increasing loss in which case you would not have a chance to get used to it and revert because things will just keep getting worse.

I’m curious what are you saying we figured out in the 70s?

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#139

Post by cantSpellSober »

human_person wrote: post #138
cantSpellSober wrote: post #86

If you get degenerative chronic illness are you eventually just as happy as you were before it? No, we figured this out in the 70s. Why is "Hedonic Treadmill" forced into blogspam titles like these? Was there a TED Talk recently? > Variators are little modulations that keep experiences fresh So... variety ? Mind blown.

My understanding is happiness will revert to the baseline if you have a set loss such as going blind or losing a limb. But a degenerative illness implies continued increasing loss in which case you would not have a chance to get used to it and revert because things will just keep getting worse. I’m curious what are you saying we figured out in the 70s?

Yes they called this a "set point," like a thermostat's; also debunked.

> what are you saying we figured out

the Treadmill essay was wrong

Re: Hacking the Hedonic Treadmill

#140

Post by eternityforest »

darod wrote: post #103

"Commercial breaks––people actually enjoy TV more with commercials." I've never enjoyed being disrupted by commercials nor has anyone else. This is why Tivo became so popular

Nobody does. But they might enjoy the time in between the commercials more. They might, an hour later, still have a level of happiness that's greater than if the show was without commercials, and answer accordingly on a survey.

If something is less enjoyable than you think it should be, I think "Maybe it's the lack of disruptors" is a fair guess.

Especially with some very intense shows that could be emotionally fatiguing without breaks, and when the timing of commercials is well chosen. It's not just random interruption, they can be used to make segments between like mini acts or episodes.

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