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“Who Should Write the Terraform?”

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Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#131
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you suggest instead?

Have a look at GruCloud, an alternative to Terraform/Pulumi/CDK, which generates the infrastructure code automatically from a live infrastructure. Disclaimer, I am the author.

Disclaimer: a kind of disavowal, rejection of responsibility

Disclosure: put hidden info forward, e.g. source of potential bias

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#132
post #94

ITT people arguing for embedding infrastructure engineers into product teams. Ayyyy, dios mio. a) If you need to embed, then actually, you need to embed InfoSec, UX, IT, Customer Success, Product, Compliance, etc. etc. for exactly the same reasons. In today's labor-constrained economy, good luck finding qualified people for every role on every team! And if one of them leaves, who ensured that they documented everythi…

It’s tough getting lectured by people who aren’t following the same level of discipline standards that you are. Infrastructure code usually looks more brittle than production code, because they aren’t specialists in high quality general purpose code. Not as bad as QA code, but not great.

I think the instinct is that if you’re going to take the moral high ground, you’d better walk up the hill and join us first. And the simplest way to do that seems to be the obvious one, which is to combine them under the same org chart and governance.

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#133
post #110
post #94

ITT people arguing for embedding infrastructure engineers into product teams. Ayyyy, dios mio. a) If you need to embed, then actually, you need to embed InfoSec, UX, IT, Customer Success, Product, Compliance, etc. etc. for exactly the same reasons. In today's labor-constrained economy, good luck finding qualified people for every role on every team! And if one of them leaves, who ensured that they documented everythi…

> If you need to embed, then actually, you need to embed InfoSec, UX, IT, Customer Success, Product, Compliance, etc. etc. for exactly the same reasons. In today's labor-constrained economy, good luck finding qualified people for every role on every team! If those people are part of your core value proposition, the thing that's supposed to give you your competitive advantage, then yes (though if you need all of them,…

> why are they in-house at all?

Someone needs to answer to Compliance, to InfoSec, to Finance. Someone needs to make sure that they all understand exactly what production looks like in their language. Compliance wants to know whether we keep EU data in the EU. InfoSec wants to know whether all our code in production passed security review. Finance wants to prevent costs from spiraling out of control and to judge which projects to fund.

Good luck trying to get AWS's "platform" to do any of that as a managed service, out of the box and without any in-house engineering time!

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#134
post #94

ITT people arguing for embedding infrastructure engineers into product teams. Ayyyy, dios mio. a) If you need to embed, then actually, you need to embed InfoSec, UX, IT, Customer Success, Product, Compliance, etc. etc. for exactly the same reasons. In today's labor-constrained economy, good luck finding qualified people for every role on every team! And if one of them leaves, who ensured that they documented everythi…

> If you're 100% serverless then this doesn't really apply, but if you're spinning up eight different Kubernetes clusters for eight different teams then you probably need to collaborate a bit better. This is exactly the situation I´m currently in. Company decided to migrate from big on-prem kubernetes to AWS. Now every team got their own account and well... good luck, you´re on your own now. We´re a small team of thr…

> it is not allowed due to billing reasons. Company policy is: One product per AWS account.

That's kinda funny because half the reason why AWS has tags in the first place is to get finer granularity into understanding billing. Not to mention products like Kubecost. Sounds like whoever wrote the policy doesn't understand how AWS works.

> Someone needs to do the dirty work but nobody wants to do it.

There are plenty of people willing to do the dirty work, they're just already working for other companies and their salaries are quite high. The labor market is tight.

> Cui bono? Neither our team, nor our users nor our infrastructure bill.

HR benefits. Having open positions that HR is failing to fill is a bad look for HR.

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're 100% serverless then this doesn't really apply, but if you're spinning up eight different Kubernetes clusters for eight different teams then you probably need to collaborate a bit better. This is exactly the situation I´m currently in. Company decided to migrate from big on-prem kubernetes to AWS. Now every team got their own account and well... good luck, you´re on your own now. We´re a small team of thr…

> it is not allowed due to billing reasons. Company policy is: One product per AWS account. That's kinda funny because half the reason why AWS has tags in the first place is to get finer granularity into understanding billing. Not to mention products like Kubecost. Sounds like whoever wrote the policy doesn't understand how AWS works. > Someone needs to do the dirty work but nobody wants to do it. There are plenty of…

Not everything can be tagged to get the source of the cost - for example I don't think you can differentiate which of your products generated egress network traffic (which is quite costly as soon as you reach certain scale). I might be wrong, I switched to separate-account-per-product a while back and never looked back.

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#136

> The development team didn’t want to – or couldn’t – do the Ops work Most devs I've spoke to are in this camp they don't want to do any Ops work at all. They want a 9-5 job without evenings are weekends wasted by services failing. No on call rota and all that jazz just writing code that's all.

People used to have same attitude with testing in reality it’s just way better quality and often velocity if folks dont just throw it over the fence.

That isn't a good comparison since testing can still be part of your 9-5. There are good engineers who adamantly never want to work outside 9-5

Re: “Who Should Write the Terraform?”

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to have same attitude with testing in reality it’s just way better quality and often velocity if folks dont just throw it over the fence.

That isn't a good comparison since testing can still be part of your 9-5. There are good engineers who adamantly never want to work outside 9-5

Same as there were "good engineers" who adamantly only wanted to write code, not fix bugs or test it, or work on anything infrastructure/tooling related even it doesn't involve any oncall.
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