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I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

going-medieval.com

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Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#131

Post by unmole »

kumarvvr wrote: post #122
nwiswell wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good. Page 68: > In ancient times, distinction was made between several different categories of farmers. There were those who cultivated their own land, those who had it cultivated by wage-earning laborers, and those who leased their land to 'metayers', farmers who paid rent in kind, in this case half the harvest and crop. There were few big landlords, and the largest estates nearly all belonged to the king, tha…

> Lest we think these ancient peasants ever actually had it good before the foreigners showed up They sure as hell had it much worse after the invaders, looters and religious fanatics wreaked havoc in the region for 1000 years.

> They sure as hell had it much worse after

Which is very different from your original absurd claim.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#132

Post by verisimi »

prox wrote: post #118
verisimi wrote: post #82

History is only an expedient story, not that much to do with reality. We really can't know how people lived a 1000 years ago, despite what might appear to be mountains of evidence. This evidence is actually the creation of historians in the past century... and when you look at their sources for yourself, you will see that they are open to interpretation despite being presented as fact. For the ruling structure today,…

While that is true for writing (who wrote this? Why? How critical is the author?) There is a ton we do know. From literature/art to archeological excavations. Ofcourse, the further you go back, you get more and more filters that make things fuzzy. Lots of things were made of wood for instance, it doesn’t survive on the whole. Medieval lives in the west were very prone to disturbing forces : invasions, successions of…

> There is a ton we do know. From literature/art to archeological excavations.

What do you think 'we' know? Is 'knowing' even a group activity? It is not of course, we can only know what we personally verify.

Now you can say that you are familiar with what an archeologist has written about what he found, but it is another thing to look at the sources for yourself and see if you concur with the conclusions.

I'd be interested to hear more on how you know so much about your family in the 17th and 18th centuries, especially if they were poor. If you have good information and sources that would definitely be unusual, at least as far as what I have found. Most people have hardly any records of their family history.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#133

Post by franknstein »

benknight87 wrote: post #112
culi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's incredibly silly how tied we are to the idea that something was invented once and then spread. Soap is literally just a fatty acid salt with some phytochemicals that have antimicrobial properties (extremely easy to come by considering most secondary metabolites of plants are specifically produced to keep them from succumbing to bacterial/fungal degradation). Soap has probably been "invented" a million ti…

OMG this, so hard. This idea is tied to the "genius" myth where we think had people like Mark Zuckerberg not come around we wouldn't have social media, or had Einstein not been born nobody else could have conceived of relativity. No, the advancement of humanity itself creates the conditions for "new" ideas to be discovered/rediscovered, and these "geniuses" are simply the individuals who, by no small achievement, pus…

The time creates a vacuum.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#134

Post by Osmose »

andrew_ wrote: post #22

Had me right up until the last paragraph. One does not have to be a colonialist or carry bias to have misconceptions about the midevil period. Ignorance is a fine reason. I myself am a huge fan of history but mostly ignorant about that time period. It's just never been my jam. I'll admit I'd probably think the "bring out your dead" and "oh Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here" sketches in Monty Python's Holy G…

The article doesn't claim that the misconception makes you colonialist, it says that this kind of ignorance ultimately _perpetuates_ a colonialist interpretation of history, which is why she feels strongly about what may seem like a minor issue to others. It's not about blaming you in particular, it's about why this was important enough to her to write about.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#135

Post by politelemon »

kumarvvr wrote: post #21
b112 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In ancient times, right until the attacks by Islamist marauders and "civilized" Britishers, none of what you have mentioned were an issue. Your statement reeks of colonialist attitudes of seeing natives of other lands as some sort of brutes and degenerates living in destitution in poverty. In India, Every village was in the vicinity of a water source. Every village had a temple, with a large pond. Massaging with oil…

> In ancient times, right until the attacks by Islamist marauders and "civilized" Britishers, none of what you have mentioned were an issue. Your statement reeks of colonialist attitudes of seeing natives of other lands as some sort of brutes and degenerates living in destitution in poverty.

Your statements reek of nationalism and revisionist history, viewing the past through black-and-white-and-rose tinted glasses, and passing blame onto 'evil foreigners' for current problems. It's mind boggling that you think anyone would lap these statements up.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#136

Post by Jataman606 »

culi wrote: post #8
simonsarris wrote: post #2

ughh I dislike when pop history takes this smarmy tone and is also not particularly accurate. > In fact soap is a motherfucking medieval invention. Yes. It is. The Romans – whomst I don’t see a bunch of basics going around accusing of being filthy – did not, in fact have soap, in contrast. They usually washed using oil. Medieval people? Oh you better believe that they had soap. Wait a minute, what about Aleppo soap?…

I think it's incredibly silly how tied we are to the idea that something was invented once and then spread. Soap is literally just a fatty acid salt with some phytochemicals that have antimicrobial properties (extremely easy to come by considering most secondary metabolites of plants are specifically produced to keep them from succumbing to bacterial/fungal degradation). Soap has probably been "invented" a million ti…

> Soap is literally just a fatty acid salt with some phytochemicals that have antimicrobial properties

It sounds literally like: "monad is just monoid in category of endofunctors, what is so hard to understand?"

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#137

Post by AngryData »

b112 wrote: post #17
klodolph wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most other animals? Well, most birds bathe. Elephants shower themselves with their trunks. Cats bathe themselves with their tongues, dogs get in the water and then shake themselves dry, and pigs wallow in the mud. Seems like what makes humans different here is that we use soap.

Animals also use things akin to soap. Birds love to bath in the ashes of a fire, the lye burns parasites, the dust chokes them. I've watched many a bird do so, after a fire.

Using ashes/lye directly on greasy human skin forms a primitive sort of soap too and isn't unheard of in human hygiene practices. And real fine dusts and grits in general seems pretty common as a method of hygiene for animals and humans alike.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#138

Post by palmetieri2000 »

fastball wrote: post #92
palmetieri2000 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned a lot from your replies to that individual, so thanks for the efforts even if the target recipient doesn't appreciate them.

He mostly seems to be making it up so I wouldn't assume you learned too much.

I've read the other comments and I feel comfortable with my statement.

Things I learned from the original comment that I feel extremely comfortable believing:

1. Indian cleaning customs that were prevalent until recently. 2. Two traditional herbs I had never heard of before. 3. The practice of oiling and massaging with sesame seed oil and the greengram flour practice too.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#139

Post by bawolff »

kumarvvr wrote: post #117
kortilla wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian norms and culture emphasizes on moving away from materialism and advocates for distribution of wealth. Greed is frowned upon and actively discouraged in a society. Wealthy are encouraged to perform rituals and festivals and distribute their wealth. This is also a bog standard description of Christianity and a bunch of other religions. There isn’t anything special about India here. > India is the only civiliz…

> This is also a bog standard description of Christianity and a bunch of other religions. I never said India is special in this regard. >Bullshit. Just the history of England and France alone are packed full of wealthy and privileged people focusing their life on the pursuit of enlightenment (spiritual, artistic, and/or scientific) and giving up pre-arranged lives of power and wealth. Name 2 kings or monarchs who did…

> > >Again, this is standard guidance you’ll find in all of the major religions.

> Where does it say in Christianity or Islam that this world is an illusion, that there is one god, that all paths lead to the same god, or that the soul inside you is the very same god you pray to ?

But that's not what you were replying to. The original context was feeding the hungry and giving charity. Which is something found in a lot of religions (albeit often convinently forgotten when it comes time to actually do it)

> >Bullshit. Just the history of England and France alone are packed full of wealthy and privileged people focusing their life on the pursuit of enlightenment (spiritual, artistic, and/or scientific) and giving up pre-arranged lives of power and wealth.

> Name 2 kings or monarchs who did this voluntarily.

You can be wealthy/privleged without being a king.

Marcus Aurelius is well known for his philosophy, although i suppose he didn't give up his position. A quick google also finds James of Aragon.

Re: I assure you, medieval people bathed (2019)

#140

Post by nwiswell »

kumarvvr wrote: post #121
kortilla wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s shocking how incongruent your views are with the text from the book (see sibling comment). Do you just selectively choose which parts of the book to believe or do you not believe peasants were any substantial part of the population and are therefore not worth caring about?

Quoted post unavailable.

You picked this book to present as evidence to support your (honestly outlandish) claims regarding living standards in ancient India. No one else even suggested it. All I did was read it (well, skim it, really) since I was surprised to hear that my schema was so out of whack with the historical reality.

Pardon me if I am skeptical regarding your claims about what is in these other "hundred books", since you apparently were not particularly acquainted with the contents of this one.

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