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The endless search for a crypto use case

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Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#131

Post by Ekaros »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #96
TheBlight wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a scheme seems a bit rough. It's a market mostly unencumbered by regulation (not true of on/offramps), online 24x7 and not directly controlled by governments -- an entirely new asset class with unique properties. It allows for new business/cause funding models. Anyone can participate regardless of "credit rating" or ideology and no one needs a custodian.

The reason you don't need a credit rating is because you need collateral. Want a $5000 loan from crypto? Better have at least $20000 in crypto assets. How anyone is expected to get credit funding from this strange system is unclear. Also the no custodian part is especially strange considering that most people who have crypto keep it on some exchangebank

The whole crypto lending to me seems like having a cake and eating it too. Which surprisingly kinda works for a while. Have crypto and let it appreciate, but at the same time use it to gamble for even more appreciation...

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#132

Post by simonebrunozzi »

iRomain wrote: post #120

I stopped reading after « with nary a mainstream use case to show for it other than drugs and ransomware » Wether you like them or not, DEFI, ICOs and NFTs are all very valid use cases which attracted people with backgrounds different enough that we can call it mainstream. Yes you can do pretty much all of them without blockchain but so can you with drugs and ransomware. I don’t know what is it with crypto that it ge…

> DEFI, ICOs and NFTs are all very valid use cases

Those are not exactly "use cases".

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#133

Post by nemothekid »

game-of-throws wrote: post #32
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

I would place "trust in government" with "lives in a hegemonic superpower". You can fully understand the use cases while also believing that they aren't that compelling unless you live in global south.

The fact is there is no reason to believe holding crypto would retain value if the united states went through an country-ending economic crisis; it more likely that your crypto would also just become equally worthless and also crash in value. Treating the United States as a "future Argentina" makes no sense, especially when it's the US-based VC investors who are indirectly backing the value of Argentinian purchased bitcoin. If you end up in a situation where the USD worthless, then there is no wealthy counter party to prop up the value of your cryptocoin.

It makes no sense to look at third world countries with relatively tiny economies and believe that crypto will retain its value if the US went through a similar situation.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#134

Post by horsawlarway »

immigrantheart wrote: post #99
game-of-throws wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

This is the only right answer. Pack it up. For real, every time I try to answer my I do crypto, often people just don't understand. They just don't. They just don't understand why I don't trust entities. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand crypto. Period. There is no other debate necessary. Period. Full stop. We go on our own way. Full stop.

Hey - I get it, I used crypto precisely because I wanted to avoid government regulation when buying black market goods back when the silk road was still a thing.

But I think you're absolutely bonkers if you think that any crypto today is actually a real solution to your lack of trust.

Here's my take:

You think that by using crypto, you're avoiding trust in governmental and financial institutions - and in some (incredibly limited - aka drug/gun) markets you are, but the exchange that you are making (intentionally or not) is not trivial, and not acceptable for most people most of the time.

What you are giving up is the power of the governmental institutions to enforce any sort of agreement or contract you make using crypto. Not their currency, not their problem. It's now your problem to resolve scams and fraud, and you have to do it using your limited powers.

And to be clear - you have really, REALLY fucking limited powers here. Unless you are so wealthy that those "entities" that you so dislike are mere nuisances dealt with by the law firm you have on retainer, or you can fund your own black-ops team, you're living in lala land if you think you can personally enforce the contracts you make. You can't. You don't have the oomph. Full Fucking Stop.

---

So I understand your lack of trust, but hate to break it to ya, bud - crypto is not solving your problem.

Simple example: You hire a contractor to remodel your bathroom, and you pay him in crypto (and we'll ignore for a moment just how laughably absurd the chances of this actually happening are...). You agree to pay 20K for the remodel, with 10K up front. He runs off with your 10k. Now fucking what?

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#135

Post by simonebrunozzi »

FYI, Fabrica uses NFTs to digitize real estate properties (land) in the US, to allow for a very fast transaction.

We thought that it would be a great use case for crypto.

Disclaimer: former co-founder/CEO. Left in late 2018. I still have equity in the company.

[0]: https://fabrica.land/

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#136

Post by majewsky »

game-of-throws wrote: post #77
xadhominemx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have no answer for the crypto on/off ramp issue.

If someone is trying to escape their local currency, they won't want an on/off ramp. In foreign nations with a large underground USD economy, people skip the local currency and trade/spend USD directly. The same could happen with BTC. In fact in the most extreme cases this transformation is already happening: https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regres... > But a major part of Venezuela's crypto oper…

How can everyone convert bolivars into bitcoin? That would imply that equal amounts of bitcoin are being sold by someone in exchange for bolivar. Who is that and why do they think it's a good deal?

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#137

Post by kcl »

yaseer wrote: post #39

I'm reminded of the pictures of New York in 1900 and 1913. Within those 13 years, the car had changed the world. https://www.businessinsider.com/5th-ave-1900-vs-1913-2011-3?... The iPhone and smartphone revolution clearly did the same, last decade. We're now 14 years into Bitcoin. Is it ever likely to change the world the same way?

This conversation is silly. You are snapshotting the transformative window. If you snapshotted the internet in the 70s or 80s you'd get a much more mundane picture.

I don't know if I think cryptocurrency will be as transformative as the internet or the mobile phone, but I think it will be within a level or two of that scale. It makes good on its promise year after year. NFTs just became popular in the last few years, and that is only one example of many. Are you going to bet against NFTs in the long run? I certainly wouldn't. We don't even know all the technologies crypto is going to enable yet.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#138

Post by uoaei »

iRomain wrote: post #120

I stopped reading after « with nary a mainstream use case to show for it other than drugs and ransomware » Wether you like them or not, DEFI, ICOs and NFTs are all very valid use cases which attracted people with backgrounds different enough that we can call it mainstream. Yes you can do pretty much all of them without blockchain but so can you with drugs and ransomware. I don’t know what is it with crypto that it ge…

You're going to have to specify your definition of the word "valid" in this context.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#139

Post by latchkey »

monetus wrote: post #114
latchkey wrote: post #5

> In crypto, on the other hand, you can speculate on shitcoins and make bets in DeFi, and that’s about it. Giant long article and only one small mention of DeFi (which I'd argue is a great use case, despite all the hacks going on) and it isn't even accurate. DeFi isn't about betting.

Not being in the space myself - can you generalize the whole thing by saying it is about any one thing? Speculative asset appreciation seemed to mostly be what drove people to it. Curious about the good emergent behaviors, as the bad ones are literally advertising themselves.

I'm getting downvoted on my comment, but your provides good value by asking for more information, so maybe I can earn back a bit of karma with a kind reply.

A good example of the value of DeFi is a project like AAVE [1]. It isn't about asset appreciation, it is about creating a frictionless lending/borrowing market based on collateral that anyone can participate in.

If I have some crypto and I want to take a loan out against it for something else, I can do so without having to go to a bank, ask for permission, KYC, or anything. The protocol itself is fully decentralized and no single entity can shut it down (or even modify it). It literally happens in a single transaction. It is global. It is 24/7. It is transparent and on-chain. Oh and the rates are actually pretty decent (no middleman).

People might ask 'why' one would want to do that and it really is just an answer of something that happens every day in TradFi markets as it is. It may not be helpful for you, but it certainly has value. Sure, people can use this for speculation, drugs or whatever. But I personally see this as extremely empowering for a variety of my own reasons.

After spending the last year+ very deep into DeFi, I've seen my fair share of scams and hacks. But my eyes have also been opened to the potential of what is out there. DeFi is the first real use case of crypto that I've seen that has value.

[1] https://aave.com/

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#140

Post by otikik »

It has the same use case as snake oil. With some extra turns:

* A pyramidal scheme (with extra steps) "buy this, the price is always going up" * You are doing this on a parallel market where authorities have little/no vision (yet). * Plus you are marketing it to people who are distrustful of authorities

The last two points seem especially tailored to make scams and deception go unpunished.

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