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In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

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Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#131

Post by [deleted] »

_-david-_ wrote: post #85
svnpenn wrote: post #30

I think considering race is fine, depending on how you use that information. If you use it to make the group less diverse, that is bad. If you use it to make the group more diverse, that is good. Does that mean that some students with higher grades/income/whatever get excluded? Yes. However grades shouldn't be the only factor in this decision. It seems that the schools are taking a holistic approach to admittance, an…

Which is more diverse: 1. Admiting a black boy who is living with both parents and who have a net worth of over $100 million 2. Admitting a white boy who grew up in poverty in Appalachia and lived in a single parent household

[deleted]

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#132

Post by Aunche »

ceejayoz wrote: post #10
dbsights wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason we should have had a problem with it then. If racism is wrong, then it shouldn't matter which race.

Quoted post unavailable.

The difference is that the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are wealthy black people and African immigrants, not the ones who were the hurt most by slavery and Jim Crow.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#133

Post by hotpotamus »

aceHN wrote: post #48

If your goal is equal opportunity you can look at socioeconomic class without considering race. Fundamentally the idea that race must be considered to achieve diversity is an inherently racist idea - you don't believe some races will get in without help.

> you don't believe some races will get in without help.

What if they didn't? What if the Supreme Court decision results in zero (or near zero) black people being admitted into Ivy League schools?

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#134

Post by shkkmo »

news_to_me wrote: post #80
tomrod wrote: post #2

I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be. Key summary: > "Today Yale joined peer institutions in stating emphatically that student diversity is essential to the missions of American universities and promotes educational excellence for all students,” President Peter Salovey said. “Our amicus curiae brief makes clear that the way we consider race and…

I don't think it's possible to have meaningful diversity of thought without diversity of background. That spans many attributes—race, economic status, where you grew up, etc. Race is obviously an important one, given how much it changes many people's experiences and perceptions. I think diverse racial representation is important, but is maybe better viewed as an indicator of success rather than a metric to optimize.…

If they are truly looking for diversity of background, they can do that without race. If Yale focused on admitting smart, low income students they would have a much better diversity of backgrounds.

> The median family income of a student from Yale is $192,600, and 69% come from the top 20 percent.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#135

Post by buscoquadnary »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #91
Invictus0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivy leagues today are anything but diverse in thought, this should be obvious. What actually exists is a repressive liberal orthodoxy, and no dissent is tolerated. I ought to expand on this since this comment will surely be controversial. I make no comment on which view is right or wrong; but suppose the conservative view were favored, and any disagreement with the ideology got your fired from your job, publicly…

[flagged]

Really, are you also more likely to be athiest as well?

Because I mean Donald Knuth is pretty darn bright and a devout Lutheran. And when we say evidence and science are we talking about the evidence and science that guided our pandemic response?

If reality has such a hard left bent to it why do so many communist nations end up massacring their people through famine when trying to implement their ideal utopian leftist solutions?

But please go on telling me how your people are so much smarter and more intelligent than the other group of people you don't like.

Actually I'm convinced we need to do something about these dangerous conservatives, their dangerous racist, deadly views are killing children and limiting women's rights. We need to do something to stop them and help them understand reality as it really is, they just need more education. Clearly however the current model isn't working maybe if we setup special camps for them to all go to so they can be really educated, re-educated for short.

Of course there will still be people that will resist, we'll need some sort of final solution for them....

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#136

Post by treeman79 »

scythe wrote: post #72
aceHN wrote: post #48

If your goal is equal opportunity you can look at socioeconomic class without considering race. Fundamentally the idea that race must be considered to achieve diversity is an inherently racist idea - you don't believe some races will get in without help.

It should be noted that neither class nor race is a reindeer-style glowing red nose. There's an recent trend in England of people faking lower-class roots to take advantage of targeted programs, and there are indicators that white Americans are pretending Native ancestry for college admission.

https://www.vox.com/2018/10/16/17983250/elizabeth-warren-bar...

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#137

Post by tomrod »

zmgsabst wrote: post #129
tomrod wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you agree with me. Great. You're just missing that bigotry of an individual is not equivalent to a systemic policy.

No — individuals can still be racist. But we’re discussing systemic racism against Asians in college admissions, so that’s an irrelevant distinction.

It seems you may have lost the thread of your original complaint on my comment.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#138

Post by cato_the_elder »

I think a lot of people who defend "affirmative action" [1] are misinformed about the extent of it. It's not about preferring the more "diverse" or less privileged candidate among roughly equally qualified candidates.

It's a direct attack on the concept of merit. Some of its ardent proponents aren't too shy about this fact either. [2]

This chart [3] by the Economist is illuminating: In Harvard undergraduate admissions, a person of the wrong race with top 10% academics has a chance equal to that of a person of the right race with bottom 40% academics.

[1]: Note the Orwellian name.

[2]: E.g. see https://postmeritocracy.org/

[3]: https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#139

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ramesh31 wrote: post #8
vorpalhex wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't give one racial group a disadvantage (Asians) to give another one an advantage. The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

>The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind. Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty. It's not even remotely the same thing.

> Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty

The children of people we put in concentration camps or accepted as refugees from e.g. the Khmer Rouge should be punished so the daughter of a hedge fund manager can get into a university named after an executive of the British East India Company? Give me a break.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#140

Post by zmgsabst »

TameAntelope wrote: post #128
zmgsabst wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes — and the context of this conversation is discrimination in college applications, against Asians.

Quoted post unavailable.

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