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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#131

Post by hnlmorg »

vocram wrote: post #107
hnlmorg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

Text navigation works in the same way on Linux/mac using readline key bindings.

Not sure what you're implying here. CLI applications? Because they'd obviously behave the same.

The issues I've noticed are around desktop applications. For example if I select some text in KWrite (KDE's "Notepad") by using SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW then it will select the word. If I do the equivalent in Notes (macOS) it will select the whole line, not just the word (I tested this just now too).

This platform specific behavioural differences isn't something that's unique when comparing to KWrite vs Notes, I just picked those applications as an example. It also isn't just SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW that differs. There's a quite a few subtle differences when using the keyboard to navigate around text areas. None of them significant but they're always enough to break my concentration when trying to get stuff done.

A lot of these can be redefined. Both on Linux and on macOS though. So you can absolutely make the two platforms behave the same way, given enough time and motivation. So we are just talking about defaults here.

Re: Linux 5.19

#132

Post by geerlingguy »

manholio wrote: post #91
rimliu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as "App Store license".

I was referring to the terms and conditions Apple imposes on developers that wish to publish software on the App store.

Luckily you're not required to publish software on the App Store. Many developers sell direct from their website these days.

Re: Linux 5.19

#133

Post by whalesalad »

vbernat wrote: post #44
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

I just wish other laptop hardware was on par with Apple. One can’t deny their attention to detail, fit and finish.

Re: Linux 5.19

#134

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

moonchrome wrote: post #50
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

Yeah I'm going to use a completely custom SoC + enthusiast driven driver support - with no support from manufacturer - to be my daily driver as a developer. Because I've got nothing better to do with my time than diagnose issues due to running a setup only 50 other people in the world use.

You've put in a support ticket with Apple, had an engineer assigned to it, and had it fixed promptly?

Re: Linux 5.19

#135

Post by [deleted] »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

[deleted]

Re: Linux 5.19

#136

Post by amelius »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #49
amelius wrote: post #33

Wait, if Linus is happy about supporting undocumented hardware, then does he like NVidia now too?

This is a specious argument. Supporting undocumented hardware is fine and always has been - what’s not is supporting gross non-free kernel blobs.

What if Apple provided a better GPU driver, as a non-free kernel blob?

Re: Linux 5.19

#137

Post by mort96 »

moonchrome wrote: post #102
mort96 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the big components like the CPU and the GPU that's the problem most of the time, it's the wifi/bluetooth chip, the sound chip, the LAN controller, the USB controller, the trackpad, the power management stuff, display backlight, etc etc.

>GPU that's the problem most of the time Developing a GPU driver for a custom chip with no public reference or support from Apple isn't a problem ? I guess you're saying it's not a problem in other laptops - but for Apple Silicon it sounds like more fundamental than those issues you mentioned.

Yeah, I wash just countering the idea that "AMD and Intel make GPU drivers for Linux so drivers on PC hardware isn't a problem".

On Macs it's a big deal; about as big a deal as making open source AMD drivers was before they had official open source drivers. And people did that, and people are working open source GPU drivers for Apple's GPU now.

Re: Linux 5.19

#138

Post by bzxcvbn »

nicce wrote: post #99
frou_dh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some developers (younger ones?) seem to think that the SemVer spec is a law of the universe, when in reality it's just something a GitHub guy put into the mix in the 2010s.

While it is not the law, it is the only reasonable attempt to solve dependency issues. If the software gets an major release when author feels like it, then version itself tells nothing about the changes. Then dependant software can never estimate the impact of update. I agree that Linux Kernel is a bit different, since it sits on top of everyrhing, but still.

> Then dependant software can never estimate the impact of update.

They can read the changelog. And if they can't be bothered to read the changelog, then why even update?

Re: Linux 5.19

#139

Post by hnlmorg »

sharikous wrote: post #130
hnlmorg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

> The Mac keyboard layout is US-like In Israel we have the option of choosing Macs with US layout or keyboard layout. What changes is mainly the enter key on two rows of the European models, the character "`", and the characters next to the shift keys.

Indeed, that's my point. What you've described (Mac US vs Mac UK) less significant than comparing a UK Mac and a UK IBM keyboard.

I'm not suggesting that a UK Mac keyboard is "the same" as a US Mac. Just that for someone used to a UK IBM keyboard, a UK Mac keyboard will feel different (and visa versa for Mac users switching to IBM keyboards).

Re: Linux 5.19

#140

Post by matthewmacleod »

amelius wrote: post #136
matthewmacleod wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a specious argument. Supporting undocumented hardware is fine and always has been - what’s not is supporting gross non-free kernel blobs.

What if Apple provided a better GPU driver, as a non-free kernel blob?

I have literally no idea – but since it hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen… who cares?
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