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High property taxes are good

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Re: High property taxes are good

#131

Post by justinzollars »

avgDev wrote: post #55
justinzollars wrote: post #47

This community is deranged. All forms of taxation are messed up, the funds end up in grifters pockets, funding wars, or in black holes. The last place I want my money is in a politicians pocket. But this community overwhelmingly supports this concept. If a slave is taxed at 100% and an indentured servant is taxed at 20% - what does that make you?

So, what is your solution for building infrastructure? Funding the military? Social programs? Snow removal? Libraries? Education?

Governments in the West have grown tremendously. In the United States the footprint of Government is 44% of GDP. 44%!

This community is "Hacker News" not "Socialist News" or "Red State".

Government should be able to function much better with much less. And it is no Hackers interest for its footprint to continue its endless expansion.

Re: High property taxes are good

#132

Post by zip1234 »

gedy wrote: post #70
lijogdfljk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took their statement differently; rather, that they aren't concerned for the fallout of the Haves at the sacrifice for the HaveNots. I am uninformed in this game, so this is not a statement by me: However i've been told that one issue is squatters, land being used purely as investment and with low costs you can easily afford to buy land and squat it till a time when you later sell it in the market. As someone looki…

> Encourage usage, not squatting. Yes agreed, though I do think people conflate things and vilify wrong targets, which sounds a lot like the OP. E.g. in California it's en vogue to rail against "Prop 13" without considering why it was passed, or how it helps people on fixed incomes remain in their homes. , or more importantly how the financialization of homes has made things bad globally.

Just because it was passed for a good reason does not make it a good policy. Prop 13, whatever the good intentions, is a disaster and has created a modern landed gentry in California.

Re: High property taxes are good

#133

Post by Dracophoenix »

yellowapple wrote: post #83
Dracophoenix wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between the two in reality? Theoretically, with a land value tax, "improvements" (however that's defined) aren't added to the final tax calculation. However better-looking homes are then a signal that drive up demand for (and therefore price of) land so ultimately it seems LVT does punish improvements if only indirectly.

> What's the difference between the two in reality? One taxes the land and the building(s) on it. The other only taxes the former. In practice, this means that while property taxes and land value taxes both penalize speculation, LVTs more precisely do so, without the side effect property taxes have of penalizing construction. > However better-looking homes are then a signal that drive up demand for (and therefore pri…

> Even assuming that effect does happen, it'd be considerably worse under a property tax.

So your answer is to dismiss my position without evidence? Your point that property tax is worse than LVT isn't justified by your claim. If land values are determined by government assessment like property values are, then you're still paying property tax, albeit with an obfuscated input for improvement in the calculation which may be higher or lower or just the same as a regular property tax.

Re: High property taxes are good

#134

Post by zip1234 »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #122
zip1234 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the abandoned houses in Detroit are owned by speculators who will do nothing with it but wait for land prices to increase.

And that’s worse than them just being abandoned how? Nobody else wanted them, nearly anybody could have bought dilapidated houses in poverty stricken neighborhoods extremely cheaply.

They are still abandoned. They are instead now owned by people that have the means, but no intention of making them better.

It has been shown that LVT reduces blight: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...

Re: High property taxes are good

#135

Post by kristjansson »

binarymax wrote: post #102

An effective 2.5% property tax, such as the example given for Chicago, is not high. Try living in NY, where effective tax is between 3.5% and 5% (mine is 3.8 in the city of Rochester). It’s really hard for people to become homeowners at that rate, especially when the market goes up and an appraiser can show up at any time and re-assess your value and raise your taxes.

Wow, that's nearly another mortgage payment. Forever! For the privilege of living in Rochester, NY?

Re: High property taxes are good

#136

Post by tptacek »

naasking wrote: post #127
cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #6

Land value taxes are even better. Property taxes provide a disincentive to making the land more productive. A land value tax would incentivize residential landowners to build more units which provides more supply and would lower rents.

I'm not clear on how land value taxes would incentivize the right kinds of units. For instance, would a land value tax incentivize the creation of tiny bachelor apartments, or larger apartments that families can use? We need incentives for both, and larger units are not very common these days.

Why does tax policy need to directly influence the mix of 1bdr and 3bdr apartments? Renters who need 3bdr apartments have enormous influence over the market already.

Re: High property taxes are good

#137

Post by nisegami »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #130
dwater wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way people in the US plan for old age and retirement, and the way they are treated by society, is terrible and property taxes are aspect of that. But the only way you should be able to own land tax free is if there are no government services provided on that land. No utilities, no public road, no emergency services, no municipal services. I don't know of anywhere in the US where that is an option. Unless you're s…

Yes, get rid of property taxes and completely overhaul the tax system. You could easily replace property taxes with a VAT which I would find much preferable because it’s more flexible. Illinois property taxes robbed my family of a farm that had been in our family for 200 years. My grandparents simply couldn’t afford $20k in taxes every damn year. Patently absurd.

That's obviously not ideal for your family, but it's precisely what property taxes (or more directly a land value tax) is designed to do. If your grandparents couldn't use the land in a way that covered the property taxes, then the argument is that the use of the land is likely inefficient and it would be better overall if the land was being used more productively. It sounds like the system did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Edit: not to mention that VAT and sales taxes are considered regressive taxes that disproportionately burden the less wealthy. I would much quicker remove VAT than property taxes.

Re: High property taxes are good

#138

Post by Originami »

kashkhan wrote: post #37
cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #6

Land value taxes are even better. Property taxes provide a disincentive to making the land more productive. A land value tax would incentivize residential landowners to build more units which provides more supply and would lower rents.

property taxes are terrible for old people. you should be able to buy a reasonable amount of land tax free. USA has about 2.5 billion acres. 1/4 acre per person in an average area tax free is reasonable.

Just allow the elderly to accrue property/land tax debts against the value of the property, redeemed when sold/transferred or on death.

Re: High property taxes are good

#139

Post by edmcnulty101 »

I think someones FIRST house should be property tax free up to a certain amount that is reasonably indexed to some home value inflation metric.

Any houses or value after that should be taxed.

I think that the government constantly threatening to take your basic shelter that that you PAYED FOR already and put you out on the street... even though.. I repeat.. you PAYED FOR THE PROPERTY ALREADY..is outright fascism.

Re: High property taxes are good

#140

Post by mutatio »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #2

In my region of northern New Hampshire, there are a lot of retired folks with houses rising from $200k-ish values to closer to $500k-ish values in the last 5-10 years. As such, there's a lot of discussion around lowering property taxes to help these retirees. In my opinion? Fuck 'em. Property taxes are a brilliant method of perfectly progressive taxation: you can always choose to live in a cheaper home. If your home…

Isn't your envy/entitlement misplaced, by your own argument "you can always choose to live in a cheaper home".
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