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George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

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Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#131

Post by claytongulick »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #31
zozbot234 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of early 20th-c. sociology was specifically concerned with their equivalent of "elite overproduction". The problem as they saw it was not so much "losers" in anything like an objective sense, but aspiring elites who viewed themselves as oppressed losers out of a misguided sense of entitlement.

> aspiring elites who viewed themselves as oppressed losers out of a misguided sense of entitlement. Yep, sounds like the disaffected white males who kill others or themselves in droves, despite often having better conditions than (less aspirant/entitled) non-white males.

If you honestly reflect on your comment, do you see anything wrong with it?

When I read it, I got very angry at what I perceive to be pointed racism.

But I'd like to try to step away from that and instead of lashing out, to understand your perspective more.

Would you mind explaining your thinking a bit more?

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#132

Post by detaro »

rgbrenner wrote: post #122
josh_fyi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not antisemitic, just that it ignores Jews, who were Hitler's bête noire. There is a tendency to ignore the fact that Jews were a special target and say "Hitler did bad things to people." (The USSR was especially bad in this.) Kind of like "All Lives Matter" -- a fine slogan, but sometimes (not always) it holds a willful ignorance of specific suffering.

The world is completely unaware of concentration camps at this point in the war. It literally just started 6 months before his review.

Persecution of Jews in Germany didn't exactly start with the concentration camps... By 1940 it had been going on for quite a bit.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#133

Post by indymike »

zozbot234 wrote: post #39
tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

> Kids just don't know any better.

Either that, or they are dealing with a scary, unknowable, potential direction their life might take and working through it by playing. This is normal, and how kids try to understand situations they might find themselves in. A kind in a war zone knows war and does not have to play to understand it.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#134

Post by landryraccoon »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #112
zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

Eh, war is simply fun. It’s appealing to males in particular, and our testosterone tends to lock in the intoxication. There’s a reason that Battlefield is one of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, and that it’s very hard to find any videogame that doesn’t involve some kind of warfare. (There are dozens of wonderful counter examples: Minecraft, celeste, undertale, sim city, stardew valley. But for ever…

> Eh, war is simply fun.

Well an idealized version of war that’s designed to glorify it could be fun.

Is actual war fun? Is the Ukraine war fun? I doubt it’s fun for any of the participants. It’s not fun for Ukrainian soldiers, it’s not fun for Russian soldiers, and it’s not fun for Russian or Ukrainian civilians.

Maybe it’s fun for some onlookers that like to cheer and spectate, but I would argue that speaks more to the nature of the spectators than to the nature of war.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#135

Post by zbrozek »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #112
zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

Eh, war is simply fun. It’s appealing to males in particular, and our testosterone tends to lock in the intoxication. There’s a reason that Battlefield is one of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, and that it’s very hard to find any videogame that doesn’t involve some kind of warfare. (There are dozens of wonderful counter examples: Minecraft, celeste, undertale, sim city, stardew valley. But for ever…

Outer Wilds! I just played it on the basis of a recommendation in an earlier HN thread and loved it.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#136

Post by whatshisface »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #112
zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

Eh, war is simply fun. It’s appealing to males in particular, and our testosterone tends to lock in the intoxication. There’s a reason that Battlefield is one of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, and that it’s very hard to find any videogame that doesn’t involve some kind of warfare. (There are dozens of wonderful counter examples: Minecraft, celeste, undertale, sim city, stardew valley. But for ever…

>Eh, war is simply fun. It’s appealing to males in particular, and our testosterone tends to lock in the intoxication. There’s a reason that Battlefield is one of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, and that it’s very hard to find any videogame that doesn’t involve some kind of warfare.

I think there is an argument to be made that Battlefield doesn't involve any warfare.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#138

Post by closedloop129 »

EUROCARE wrote: post #58
superb-owl wrote: post #9

> Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice This fact has been the downfall of every utopian ideology, and ignoring creates a vacuum that fascist regimes readily fill. I wonder what…

Why can't people struggle and self-sacrifice for utopia?

Most do. Most often, the problem is not that people are bad but that people choose to fight for a good that isn't compatible with others. From their point of view, they are fighting for an utopian society.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#139

Post by roywiggins »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #107
zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

> I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. They very much play war games, even incorporating the realities around them into the games, like checkpoints, airstrike alarms, and such.

Speaking of:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-war-children-with-toy...

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#140

Post by alex_sf »

fwip wrote: post #82
alex_sf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why that's toxic. Striving, struggle, and violence are critical for any living thing to survive. Short of reaching post-scarcity, this can't change. If we define toxic as harmful, then violence is the opposite. It's the only reason we have civilization.

Cooperation, not violence, is the reason for civilization.

Cooperation is certainly critical, violence is what allows for it to take place.

You can build a utopian commune, but if your neighbors want your crops you would be wise to get a weapon.

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