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We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

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Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#131

Post by sovnade »

yucky wrote: post #67
sovnade wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No official body has ever said "you will not get covid if you get the vaccine". Even the earliest trial results said "you will not be hospitalized or die if you get the vaccine", not that you won't get covid. And at the time, that was true because we were dealing with the original strain. Nothing else you said is untrue either. The vaccine drastically reduced the spread of the virus. I'm not sure what you're getting…

The CDC literally rewrote the definition of "vaccine" on their website to fit the new reality.[1] Sorry, the trust is long gone and never coming back. [1] https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/emails-confirm-why-cdc-ch...

And now it's more accurate - there's plenty of vaccines out there previously that weren't 100% effective, so there's no reason to have the absolute language out there. The measles vaccine is only 97% effective after 2 doses - so that wouldn't have met the old definition either.

edit: sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#132

Post by KennyBlanken »

jtc331 wrote: post #77
jmyeet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much damage has been done to public trust Anti-vaxxers aren't new. What we have here is an unhealthy mix of exceptionalism, anti-intellectualism and contrarianism. There is a psychological comfort in believing you' can see through the [Big Lie/Conspiracy]. Prior to Covid it was autism and vaccine. When was the last time you heard about that? Before Covid. Why? Because we've moved on to another vaccine to be skep…

You literally ignored all of the parent’s points about wildly changing promises and narratives and inconsistencies to make this for into your story about this just being about an “ unhealthy mix of exceptionalism, anti-intellectualism and contrarianism”.

The parent point's claims were a gish-gallop, and the proper response is to call it out or ignore it.

The FDA and CDC never claimed that if you get vaccinated, you won't get covid. Once Biden mis-spoke during an off-the-cuff comment with a reporter.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#133

Post by apvieira »

sovnade wrote: post #117
apvieira wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the CDC saying that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick"? https://youtu.be/uKf8dVxOy0s

And this was mostly true from the original strain back in early 2021. The vaccine reduced the ability to contract and spread the virus dramatically. The chances of contracting and spreading the original strain, if you were fully vaccinated, was close enough to zero to say it basically wasn't happening. Delta obviously changed that, and omicron has changed it much more.

No post body was provided.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#134

Post by kradeelav »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #27
autokad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, because I don't think we will be given a choice on whether we want to take it or not, and the last booster I had in December wrecked me. Within 20 minutes I was yawning non stop, one yawn after till the point I was gasping for air. eventually my whole body was in pain for about 3 days, my resting heart rate was over 100 (60-65 is normal for me) and my oxygen levels was down to 90. 6 weeks later I caught o…

I thought nobody was forced to take the vaccine?

You do if you want to travel to Canada from the US (and from what I hear, work or live at all in Canada).

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#135

Post by peter422 »

jtc331 wrote: post #68
peter422 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s all a giant conspiracy dude! The vaccines which nobody is taking and cost under $20 are worth pharma companies engaging in secret underhanded methods to hurt other vaccines (even though all their FDA filings and research are mostly public).

> cost under $20 Per-dose cost is meaningless. Now do “multi billion dollar government paid for contracts”.

Yes they have huge contracts but they also have to produce the vaccine! And the vaccine could be waaay more expensive given its value to the people who took it.

Merck stock (no vaccine) had the exact same return as Pfizer over the past 5 years.

Now Moderna is up 800%, so maybe look their way if you are concerned about a conspiracy.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#136

Post by tacon »

jtc331 wrote: post #63
KennyBlanken wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

"Vaccines are defined as immunogenic preparations of a pathogen that evoke an immune response without causing disease."[1]

"Some vaccines offer full sterilizing immunity, in which infection is prevented completely."[2]

[1] Vaccinology: Principles and Practice (2012), p.3 https://book4you.org/book/2156866/923113

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#137

Post by mherdeg »

autokad wrote: post #22
phkahler wrote: post #15

We could just approve Corbevax in the US. It's a more traditional vaccine and includes more of the virus than spike proteins. It's also unpatented and cheap. The cynic in me says there is huge interest in having an annual Covid vaccine like the flu one. They'll just change spike proteins every year in a never ending game of cat and mouse. With mRNA that game is easy and profitable.

I hope not, because I don't think we will be given a choice on whether we want to take it or not, and the last booster I had in December wrecked me. Within 20 minutes I was yawning non stop, one yawn after till the point I was gasping for air. eventually my whole body was in pain for about 3 days, my resting heart rate was over 100 (60-65 is normal for me) and my oxygen levels was down to 90. 6 weeks later I caught o…

Yeah that tracks -- a local news station read through a database (I'm assuming this is VAERS) and found 5 reports of excessive yawning from Moderna recipients as of Apr 2021: https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/staring-yawning-falling-off...

Sorry to hear about the experience :(

If you have reason to believe your body can't tolerate the mRNA vaccines, some alternatives to discuss with a GP might include

* Evushield -- pre exposure prophylaxis if you're at risk and the mainline vaccines don't work

* Paxlovid -- get outcomes comparable to conventionally vaccinated people if you take shortly after infection, beware "rebound" / second course, metallic taste and a lot of poop

* Monoclonal antibodies after confirmed infection -- probably bebtelovimab right? Hard to keep a handle on this with variants.

* Indoor air quality -- try to shop at businesses that have 3+ air changes per hour of MERV13+ filtered or outdoor air (there are healthy building stickers like LEED but they haven't really taken off)

* Rely on others' immunity -- I'm still unsure whether vaccinated people are less contagious? If so even if you're medically unable to participate in vaccination, other people are protecting you in aggregate

* Just accept the possibility of a painful death in the future -- it could happen for any of us right? Who knows? We live with lots of risks.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#138

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

sovnade wrote: post #117
apvieira wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the CDC saying that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick"? https://youtu.be/uKf8dVxOy0s

And this was mostly true from the original strain back in early 2021. The vaccine reduced the ability to contract and spread the virus dramatically. The chances of contracting and spreading the original strain, if you were fully vaccinated, was close enough to zero to say it basically wasn't happening. Delta obviously changed that, and omicron has changed it much more.

No post body was provided.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#139

Post by yucky »

sovnade wrote: post #131
yucky wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC literally rewrote the definition of "vaccine" on their website to fit the new reality.[1] Sorry, the trust is long gone and never coming back. [1] https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/emails-confirm-why-cdc-ch...

And now it's more accurate - there's plenty of vaccines out there previously that weren't 100% effective, so there's no reason to have the absolute language out there. The measles vaccine is only 97% effective after 2 doses - so that wouldn't have met the old definition either. edit: sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition

>sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition

Really?

So the definition the CDC used for years to describe vaccines had to be changed, since by their own definition the COVID vaccine wasn't actually a vaccine. And the best part is they didn't even announce & explain the change, they just stealthily modified it on their website.

And you don't understand why so many people think secretly redefining a very important word after the fact to change the meaning is shady? Especially considering government mandates put millions of people in a very uncomfortable spot with employment - you don't see why that would lead to mistrust?

OK. I'm not sure we'll be able to square this circle then.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#140

Post by randomhodler84 »

rayiner wrote: post #114
DennisP wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American with very little appetite for catching Covid, I'll be first in line for a universal covid vaccine.

I had it, before a vaccine was available, and it was a nothing burger, like it was for most 30-somethings. If you already have natural immunity, or 1-2 doses of the vaccine, there’s no point worry about it.

No, stop staying this foolishness. In dense cities like NY, I would say at least 20% of the city is infected right now. Workers. People on the street. The subway is disgusting, there is at least one infected person per carriage coughing over everyone and refusing to wear a mask. You walk around and hear that infected lung with light mucus cough. It’s everywhere. Unless we get proper proper sterilizing vaccines, the world is going to be in a cycle of getting sick from it every few months. This is serious and infectious like nothing on earth. I am tired of the selfishness of people having an attitude that it’s not a big deal.

At this point the vax we had is for something that doesn’t exist anymore. There is no long lasting natural resistance. We need new tech and widespread adoption. If people are going to go out symptomatic and infected and spread an r=17.5 virus, and there really is nothing we can do to stop them, we need much better tech to save us.

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