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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#131

Post by toomuchtodo »

hellotomyrars wrote: post #105
q1w2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if what is published from time to time on media is actually true That's a big IF. Unions were invented after the onset of the industrial revolution to combat truly unsafe work conditions in industrial settings where worker's dying was common. OSHA did away with all that. The current generation of "bad work condition" complaints is around getting adequate bathroom breaks.

What rock are you living under? Plenty of the documented absolute nightmare of working for Amazon in their warehouses is corroborated by their own internal analysis. Unions are for more than just making sure people don't die when doing their job. The union I am a member of more than doubled the wages of its members after its first 12 years of existence. Crucially it also ensures twice yearly cost of living adjustment…

These people are oblivious to the suffering, or excuse it away.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#132

Post by macintux »

photochemsyn wrote: post #70
jaclaz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but besides and before the wage increases, it seems to me like the priority would be for decent working conditions, if what is published from time to time on media is actually true, the biggest issues are about lack of (normal, decent) pauses or rest periods, continuous summoning for increases in productivity, total control on the workers, etc.

All that becomes a lot more tolerable if you're getting double your previous pay.

Only until you’re injured.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#133

Post by pastacacioepepe »

thepasswordis wrote: post #122
0n0n0m0uz wrote: post #109

People nowadays have no memory of the decades of struggle, sacrifice to win the rights we currently have. Unions are the most effective tool the working class has to affect change where they spend a majority of their waking life. No wonder why its demonized at every possible instance.

Strong unions certainly did wonderful things for the working class people of Detroit, Michigan.

Unions can be corrupted or do mistakes, and sometimes unions are not powerful enough in the face of global market shifts.

That doesn't mean unions are bad or useless. It would be like saying that since democratic governments can be corrupted, we should do without democracy.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#134

Post by smugma »

photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage, more than double the federal minimum wage. I think at the time Walmart was at $10 or $11.

I live in very liberal SF but outside of my bubble, I hear people complain that it’s not possible to hire Nannies/housecleaners/employees anymore when Amazon and Starbucks pay $18/hr. Seems like the answer is easy: pay them more or make the job more desirable.

Amazon working conditions are challenging, and they have been super anti-union. But they’ve also done more to increase wages in the US than anyone in Washington in the past 15 years, arguably second biggest in past 40 [1].

[1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#135

Post by denton-scratch »

jimnotgym wrote: post #21
capableweb wrote: post #19

mrits: "You guys love the police union too, right? Right???" The general idea, yeah. It proves how strong a union can be. The implementation? No. A union for people who have monopoly on violence? No. A union that protects people who are actively hurting civilians without recourse? No.

In the UK the police are neither allowed to form a union or strike.

They have a union: The Police Federation. It's true the police in the UK are not allowed to strike.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#136

Post by kaibee »

tarr11 wrote: post #124
GuB-42 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Is it what usually happens when workers unionize? It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

It also means Amazon increases spending on automation. https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/22/amazon-debuts-a-fully-auto...

Amazon is going to do that regardless.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#137

Post by kolinko »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #116
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

Or Amazon will push for more automation and they will all lose their jobs. Right now these workers work at Amazon, because that's the best paying job they can find.

Amazon will push for more automation regardless.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#138

Post by GordonS »

ekianjo wrote: post #111
ilikehurdles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do agree in principle that rapidly increasing wages leads to price inflation, your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland (most recently was there on Saturday and will spend the next few days there starting tomorrow.)

> your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland Living in Switzerland is clearly way more expensive than living in any of its close neighbors, so please explain me how this is not related to higher wages.

But... aren't wages in Switzerland also higher than their close neighbours? It's the same thing in Norway - everything seems expensive for visitors, but wages are much higher too.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#139

Post by pastacacioepepe »

bombcar wrote: post #46
JWlrCk9PkipFTDq wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK I'll bite - why?

If I were to try to guess, it's that it forces political cooperation on people under threat of not having a job. Imagine the situation where every single company in your state is a union shop (you have to join the union and pay dues if you work) - and every single union is wildly pro-gun, supporting candidates who want everyone to carry two guns (but they'll compromise to only men and only one if pushed). So to live…

Imagine the situation where every single company in your state is underpaying its employees, exploiting workforce in third world countries, polluting the environment, externalizing costs, laying off exclusively to improve short term profits for shareholders, etc and they lobby governments to keep it that way.

So to live and work, your labor has to go to support that. If you were anti-capitalist, you'd probably feel a bit annoyed.

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