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Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

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Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women are considered less than men in Asian cultures (equality of sexes is new in the West too). Religions are not separate from the culture around them. Sure - but aren't monks and priests also supposed to be a model, demonstrating what a really dedicated, pious follower of the religion should look like?

You're begging the question. Why should monks and priests be a model, rather than a reminder of human nature?

For the same reason I'd expect the pope to be catholic :)

Wouldn't you expect a full-time professional footballer/dancer/poet to be better at football/dance/poetry than the average person on the street?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#132
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure which is more disrespectful, but I do think the two situations are different . If I'm immersed in a culture or practice and I reject some aspects of it, from a place of familiarity, that means something different--maybe something more disrespectful!--that if I display the trappings of a culture without understanding what they mean.

> removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. Ironically all this talk of cultural appropriation is "contrary or even disrespectful of the original intent" of Buddhism. Buddhism never belonged to Magadha, India or Asia, so it is not possible for anybody to appropriate it. It is not anyone's property to begin with

Who said anything about geographic locality?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are Americans the “majority” and Asian Buddhists the “minority” in this exchange? And what makes this “colonialism” ?

"majority" and "minority" are not about raw numbers but power dynamics in this context. "colonialism" refers to extracting whatever idea or artifact is seen as valuable from a culture or a land without consent and/or without respecting the moral rights of who invented or made it. Additionally, you can read the wikipedia page. (edited for clarity: different people use majority/minority differently depending on the con…

> "majority" and "minority" are never about raw numbers but power dynamics.

Sure, I’m aware of this distinction. I’m asking what are the power dynamics between Asian Buddhists and random American businessmen hypocritically adopting Buddhism? They don’t even live in the same countries, and there is not any colonial relationship or other power relationship between them as far as I can tell, so what makes one “majority”?

Sure, in general, the West has exploited Asia many times throughout history; is this the only reason? If so, then wouldn’t any cultural exchange whatsoever between Asia and the West count as appropriation?

> "colonialism" refers to extracting

This is a really vague and ahistorical definition of colonialism that seems made up to justify your point, but anyway, nothing has been “extracted” — people in traditionally Buddhist cultures have the same access to the same Buddhism that they did before. Unlike actual historical colonialism in which physical resources are stolen, people are forced to work, traditional culture is banned or heavily distorted in the places where it’s practiced, and so on.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#134
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

Spot on. This is a perfect example of appropriation. --- Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. This can be controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures. According to critics of the practice, cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilati…

The whole concept is absurd, reading Wikipedia won't fix that.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#135

How would these people react if they learned that the Buddha said his teachings were to last only 1000 years* if women were not included in the Sangha? And will only last 500 years after women were included?: > “But, Ānanda, if women had not obtained the Going-forth from the home life into homelessness in the Dhamma & Vinaya made known by the Tathāgata, the holy life would have lasted long, the true Dhamma would have…

For what its worth Buddhism did die out entirely in India.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#136

> In an industry where 70+ hour workweeks are normal, Well, there's part of your problem right there. I have great scepticism about businesses getting involved with things like Buddhism. From what few anecdotes I've heard, it ends up being some kind of twisted take on the source religion. Buddhism is not some kind of pill that you swallow to move from working 70+ hours per week to 80+ hours a week. Ultimately, Buddhi…

Religion has some passages that can be cherry picked to mislead the masses and especially useful for the ruler class to direct them. Buddha is not an exception to it.

As I've always feel, most traditional religion teachings doesn't fit with modern way (globalization, capitalism) of living.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#137

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

I had a coworker recently tell me I was culturally appropriating the Buddha (I'm a Buddhist) presumably because I am "from the West". Apart from being one of the most offensive things I've ever been told (before anyone jumps on me for this: I can still observe it as offensive regardless of my attachment to the offense) it confirmed for me that whatever is going on in the US with identity politics has jumped the shark…

I also find it funny. I wonder if that’s why bodhidharma spent so long in the cave, to stop all those Han Chinese appropriating his mind bending techniques of not being a dickhead and sitting quietly observing life ;)

If someone said that to me (also a Buddhist) I would probably burst out laughing :)

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#138
post #8

I’m a Catholic (so I have … my own view on Buddhism) but I lived in SEA for a long time. I want to say, this article is very good. The buddhism as practiced in the west has very little to do with actual practices in the east. But, Buddhism is also very confusing, and it’s hard to say “what is the true buddhism” (mahayana, therevada, vajrayana and zen buddhism in Japan (formally mahayana) are all very different)

". But, Buddhism is also very confusing, and it’s hard to say “what is the true buddhism” (mahayana, therevada, vajrayana and zen buddhism in Japan (formally mahayana) are all very different)"

That seems to to be the case with most major religions. It always boggles my mind how different the conclusions of different Christian groups from the reading the same Bible are. Same for Islam.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#139
>It feels anti human.

Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologists, but within the public sphere they function only as a combined virtue signal and rhetorical weapon. What makes these weapons difficult is that they are so tightly wrapped in an image of compassion such that even those that wield them may not understand their true nature. A clever design.

This is a good example of how anything can be used as a weapon, even compassion. I really wish all these academics pushing the narrative of privilege etc would chill out for a second and just enjoy the world as it is, in all it's messiness. To stop seeing the world as purely an evil constructed on the mass graves of the innocent. Even if it were true (and in some sense it is) this is still the world we have. This is where kids are growing up, people are falling in love, where discoveries are being made. Sometimes you gotta just say 'fuck it' and enjoy the world you have without constantly speculating about how it should be, how it should have been, about whether the fruits you are enjoying were earned with blood. We cannot, in each successive generation, reform ourselves to undo the injustices of the past, not only because it's practically impossible but because the meaning of injustice changes. And society is finite in its malleability. To be sure, some things can be done, within a generation or two. Maybe three. But after a while, what's done is done and you have to move on.

EDIT: It's curious how sometimes a post gets upvoted, then downvoted, then several more cycles. Now its at 1. I'd be curious to know the "velocity" on this one, dang.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#140

How would these people react if they learned that the Buddha said his teachings were to last only 1000 years* if women were not included in the Sangha? And will only last 500 years after women were included?: > “But, Ānanda, if women had not obtained the Going-forth from the home life into homelessness in the Dhamma & Vinaya made known by the Tathāgata, the holy life would have lasted long, the true Dhamma would have…

It was 2500 years ago.

We do not care at all.

Buddhism is not a philosophy based on a magic book or some unprovable god; it’s just people. The Buddha was a normal person, and absolutely could and did make the kinds of mistakes common in his time.

I don’t think that stops it being useful, personally.

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