New California law requires high schools to start later • Hacker News Board

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#131

Post by ravitation » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

MBlume wrote: post #12

httpz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That won't work for young kids if the parents have to go to work by 9.

If a high schooler needs to be driven to school by their parent, there is a serious street safety/transit problem which should be solved.

Most of America is a serious street safety/transit problem which should be solved.

A plurality ~35% of high school students are driven to school, though not necessarily by a parent.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0739456X1772514...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/how-dista...

EDIT: This is nationwide, there's reason to believe this percentage is probably higher in California.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#132

Post by bdowling » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:27 PM UTC

Does this affect private schools or home schooling?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#133

Post by gonehome » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #113

gonehome wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It's way better for younger kids to start earlier than older kids, gives time for parents to get them out the door before work (older kids can manage themselves). There's also some evidence that older kids have more trouble getting up super early. 2. Highly regionally variable (California summer is the best season by far, east coast summer is much worse than fall) - summer also has the longest daytime light which…

East coast summer is much worse than fall? What do you mean?

Generalizing a bit, but the east coast in the summer is often very hot, humid, and buggy. The east coast fall is often less humid and more temperate (more pleasant to be outside).

The west coast summer can be hot, but is rarely humid.

Middle of the country varies too much to really generalize imo.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#134

Post by adamw2k » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

Many folks are talking about bus schedules, but California hardly offers transporation in most districts. Only 9% of children take a bus to school [1] and that's been trending down for decades. Pay more, get less; sad state of affairs.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-03/californ...

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#135

Post by giantg2 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #122

giantg2 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kids are really so sleep deprived that we need a law about it, then it's likely some will sleep past their alarms. Dictating diet by limiting options doesn't sound like a great plan to me. You know what else is a non-problem? The current start times.

I see the argument you are making and just want to suggest that this law is trying to help out the kids who are both capable of getting to school on their own regardless of start time, who would also benefit from the extra sleep. I suspect that this is the majority of the population of teenagers. Public schools are not really a free market where kids get to pick and choose based on features like start times. Most are…

If this is such a contentious issue, then why not allow the parents in each district to decide? That's really what I'm getting at - the state is making this decision for everyone by usurping the parents representation at the district level.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#136

Post by sva_ » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

I fully understand that some people are seemingly genetically predisposed to get up later, and in puberty this effect is exacerbated (puberty seems to cause people's circadian rhythm to make them stay up later). I'm probably one of them, looking at my sleeping habits.

So while this will obviously have a positive effect on 'night owls', may it have a negative effect on 'early birds'?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#137

Post by lcvw » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

kshacker wrote: post #121

gruez wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent economist article explains it well: >Since the 1950s Americans have been moving away from cities to sprawling suburbs with limited public transport. Families became car-dependent and buses were used to get pupils to school. But to save money schools often have to share bus fleets. High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness…

Your parent comment said > the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40 The comment you posted said > High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness. They seem opposite, no?

Depends on the school district. Growing up my district did it younger->older, my partner’s did it the reverse. I think it’s considered my progressive to do older kids later since they tend to go to bed later.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#138

Post by throwaway742 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #64

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't trust a highschool aged kid to go to school on their own, early start times aren't going to change anything. Heck, you can drive them to the building and watch them walk inside and they'll just walk right out the back. Delinquent kids dgaf. Now for the not totally delinquent but still up for sketchy borderline behaviour kids, finishing early and having couple hours between the end of class and when their…

If the kids really have a hard time waking up (the point t of this law), then it's possible they over sleep. Many parents might not be comfortable with their kid cooking breakfast unsupervised too. If they're in after school activities and/or have a job, then it seem unlikely that they would get into trouble anyways. Pushing the time back will make these after school activities unfeasible for many, and limit opportun…

These are high school students they are going to be living on their own soon. I think being able to feed themselves is a skill they should probably develop.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#139

Post by cultofmetatron » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

the chronic lack of sleep in highschool probably set back my intellectual development a decade. These days I genenrally sleep from midnight to 10am and that seems to be what I need to perform in my job. Its crazy that my paid job is happy to accommodate me while highschools continually disrespect their students with wake up times that set them up for failure.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#140

Post by SoftTalker » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #56

smm11 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am VERY close to this situation, I'm married to a California teacher. Most of the kids hate this idea. 1. They know they and everyone else will just stay up later. 2. School will go on too late in the day, sports participation is dropping appreciably. 3. Those who work after school or school/sports are quitting sports to work, and planning ways to leave when they did previously to go to work. This is incredibly sho…

Education is more important than playing football. Working is more important than playing football (for those who need the money). Anecdotally, when I was in high school, with a 7:30 AM start, around 25% of the class was asleep through 1st period. And this was in honors/AP courses with the kids who wanted to learn, get good grades, and generally be successful.

Football (and its school attendance and passing grade requirements) might be the thing keeping a kid in school and getting an education.