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The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

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Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#131

Post by ch »

thinkcomp wrote: post #42
gojomo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it scale to Wal-mart? Even with a dozen people with the same name in the store, a cashier can quickly pick a matching face: everyone is good at that (except for prosopagnosics). And that's without assuming Wal-mart adds any extra hardware that could narrow the position of handhelds to individual registers.

That's a pretty long scroll box to find the person in the first place. Or an added step as you key in the first few letters of the person's name. At large retailers or QSR chains that put a premium on fast checkout, neither option will fly. I obviously appreciate the simplicity of paying with your face.

With NFC, they could just limit the list to devices in close proximity to the point of sale. That said iPhone doesn't have NFC so they need to solve that problem some other way.

The general point of scale issues still is valid, but culling the list of payers seems surmountable.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#132

Post by notatoad »

jerfelix wrote: post #99
notatoad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the privacy issues are negated by it being totally opt in. the other examples in your post are silent, unauthorized tracking. obviously there are privacy concerns with a system like this, but if that is something that worries you, you can control it.

I still would like to be able to buy coffee without having to announce my real name out loud to everyone around me. Cash provides me that privacy. Heck, credit cards even keep the transaction between me and the merchant.

yes. so if you like that privacy, don't this system. some people don't mind telling the people at their coffee shop what their name is, and they can use this.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#133

Post by refulgentis »

vidarh wrote: post #114
refulgentis wrote: post #94

I am the cofounder of a startup that builds an iOS/iPod/iPad POS Ambur, and it's absolutely astonishing to me to see people claim Square is doing anything useful for merchants. Their software is far too simplistic for anyone running more than a very basic coffee shop with tech savvy customers to use. Even something as simple as most customers demand paper receipts, and Square's functionality is taking basic orders, o…

Have you talked to them? If so, what was their response?

I asked them several times through email, no response.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#134

Post by refulgentis »

mseebach wrote: post #116
refulgentis wrote: post #94

I am the cofounder of a startup that builds an iOS/iPod/iPad POS Ambur, and it's absolutely astonishing to me to see people claim Square is doing anything useful for merchants. Their software is far too simplistic for anyone running more than a very basic coffee shop with tech savvy customers to use. Even something as simple as most customers demand paper receipts, and Square's functionality is taking basic orders, o…

Doesn't the Square solution work like a common separate-hardware credit card terminal? You run the flow on your regular POS system, including any receipt printing, and then just use Square at the very end to handle the payment?

No, at least not on the iPad, and even if it did most businesses would see that as pretty backwards. every second counts, in restaurants especially, and essentially maintaining two sets of books always leads to trouble.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#135

Post by ricardobeat »

fauldsh wrote: post #125
ig1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens all the time with credit cards, the practice is known as "skimming" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud#Skimming

But it would be so much easier with this new system, they're told all the information they need and will have to enter legitimately, rather than having to use 3rd-party hardware.

Then they get kicked out of the program.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#136

Post by aero142 »

6ren wrote: post #101

A malicious cashier could order things in your name, whenever you were nearby. This might not happen much in practice, because the cashier would be found out later (assuming they must login). However, the opportunity doesn't arise with existing transactions, where you must physically hand something over (cash/card), and usually get an opportunity to verify the amount, so there's no evidence either way. It will be int…

It's better with this than with a CC. You get a notification on your phone immediately, so they are likely to get caught at the moment they do it. You could walk up to the manager and say, "Hey, someone just charged me for something I didn't order. With a credit card, they might take the credit card nimber when you buy something legitimately and then skim it and use it later. It's hard to know which time you used the card and it was skimmed and who purchased something later. This sounds more secure.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#137

Post by dredmorbius »

corin_ wrote: post #106
dredmorbius wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so I'll raise the ante. What happens when you're chillin' on the street, and your arch nemesis has hacked your favorite coffeeshop's PoS system, nabbing your account details, phone identifier, and photo, and proceeds to stalk you all over town from a distance of 100 feet?

What happens when your arch nemesis has hacked your favourite coffee shop's PoS system right now and proceeds to steal all the credit card numbers that go through it... how is the new scenario any worse?

As weak as credit card numbers are as a security measure, the countermeasure defense is largely for credit-card issuers (and/or the processing networks) to monitor traffic very heavily for anything vaguely resembling fraudulent activity. Cardholders are largely protected by law (though merchants aren't).

The special sauce here is the location tracking. The system seems to assume that vendors are at a fixed location, but there's probably no reason a mobile device couldn't be constructed that functions as a PoS, and with hacked data/credentials, it could be used for tracking purposes. Say, with a number of confederates (or a good make-up job), charging stuff to your account while you're in the area. Or insert intelligence, criminal, stalker, jealous ex, etc., scenarios.

I'm increasingly in favor of cold hard cash for transactions rather than divulging my personal information in ever increasing amounts and rates.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#138

Post by reissbaker »

corin_ wrote: post #104
reissbaker wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a restaurant's going to go to all the trouble to install a system like this and set it up so that my phone can pay them Well, the point of Square is that there isn't much to install. Download the app, they mail you a reader for free (or you could pick one up at the nearest Apple store for $10 if you can't wait), and you're ready to start taking payments immediately. Setting up Square is simpler than setting up a t…

You've missed the entire topic of this article - it's about a new Square system that detects when you are in the store because your phone is on you. Not just Square's basic card reader device/software.

I think you missed this line:

    and then you get these niceties on top, too
My point was that the entire Square package (including Card Case) is easy to set up and trivial to use. Figs was apparently under the impression that it was complicated for merchants to "install a system like this."

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#139

Post by dredmorbius »

adamjernst wrote: post #87
dredmorbius wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the privacy issues aren't negated. If you opt in, you have no privacy. And if this does become ubiquitous (I suspect it won't, but that's just me), opting out will be painful. Very painful. No thanks.

Opt in per store .

This also predicates having location disclosure enabled on your mobile device.

Thanks, but no.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#140

Post by 6ren »

aero142 wrote: post #136
6ren wrote: post #101

A malicious cashier could order things in your name, whenever you were nearby. This might not happen much in practice, because the cashier would be found out later (assuming they must login). However, the opportunity doesn't arise with existing transactions, where you must physically hand something over (cash/card), and usually get an opportunity to verify the amount, so there's no evidence either way. It will be int…

It's better with this than with a CC. You get a notification on your phone immediately, so they are likely to get caught at the moment they do it. You could walk up to the manager and say, "Hey, someone just charged me for something I didn't order. With a credit card, they might take the credit card nimber when you buy something legitimately and then skim it and use it later. It's hard to know which time you used the…

Nice point. A notification just-after is almost as good as authorization just-before.

An exception I see is that it works even when your phone is off, so you wouldn't be aware of the notification (or so I assume - do some phones buzz/beep, even when off?) Of course, it makes it riskier for a malicious cashier. I suppose they could check who has their phone off first, but the risk is certainly mitigated.

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