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Laundry symbols make no sense

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Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#131

Post by Flimm »

b112 wrote: post #78
detritus wrote: post #9

Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't account for the printing limitations on small fabric tags, never mind the ability of old fogeys such as myself to be able to squint that hard and actually read them. I have no idea even looking on my screen here what the difference between the first three is supp…

I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (a…

I would highly recommend reading some UX classics such as:

- The Inmate Are Running The Asylum by Alan Cooper

- The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman

(and I'm sure there are many more good resources that are recent than that.)

It's very easy as tech-savvy people like us to underestimate how hard technology, even conventions like laundry symbols, are. I personally have printed out a legend explaining the laundry symbols and put them near to my washing machine, but I'm the only person I know who does that. Everyone else guesses or struggles to use laundry symbols correctly, or reads the text in English if it is provided.

Now, does that mean we should change all the laundry symbols just because one person shared a redesign on their blog? No. Changing something that is so well-established has significant downsides and risks. But I think it's perfectly legitimate to spot their difficulties, and to pursue better UX relentlessly, with testing with real users. That's what separates a good (UX) designer from an engineer who produces something that fits their mindset but not the mindset of actual users.

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#132

Post by keybored »

jeffwask wrote: post #113
b112 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (a…

> I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. I tend to agree. As a culture we have the knowledge of the world in our pocket day in and day out yet we have become lazy and even obstinate about using it. I've started turning gardening and landscaping into a bit of a hobby with my new house. I'm constantly looking up specifics on plants, how to prune, and etc. It is so much e…

> I tend to agree. As a culture we have the knowledge of the world in our pocket day in and day out yet we have become lazy and even obstinate about using it.

What do you think the problem (one of them) with the Information Age is? The affordance of lookup makes it so that we have to look up more and more. And then we have to arrange more and more information in order to make the frequently-needed information convenient enough to look up.

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#133

Post by Izkata »

iratewizard wrote: post #98
b112 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (a…

The tags aren't that hard to remember, either. Do not bleach is the only one that you have to think, oh right the triangle is a bottle of bleach. The circle in a square is describing spin cycle. The circle with no square is describing drying without heat. The iron is describing an iron. The dots always represent the three levels of heat, just like on your iron. I remember this in spite of not having done laundry in 5…

> The circle with no square is describing drying without heat.

That's the square with no circle, the circle with no square is very different.

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#134

Post by macksd »

b112 wrote: post #78
detritus wrote: post #9

Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't account for the printing limitations on small fabric tags, never mind the ability of old fogeys such as myself to be able to squint that hard and actually read them. I have no idea even looking on my screen here what the difference between the first three is supp…

I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (a…

There are warnings on my bleach bottles saying not to mix with things. But that didn't stop my wife from doing it once. Generally people don't RTFM even if you put it on the bottle in big red letters.

edit: Just to be clear, though, I agree with you - people should educate themselves and the fact that people won't make a point of educating themselves is the problem. I've had multiple experiences where I paused to look up if it was safe to mix medications that were being given to my kids, or if it was safe to use a human first aid ointment on a pet. Sometimes the answer is 'No!' but the general reaction is usually "Oh I wouldn't worry about it".

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#135

Post by bzxcvbn »

bombcar wrote: post #124
jrochkind1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! I don't believe that's how USA washing machines work, they usually just say "hot", "warm", and "cold". Apparently USAians are washing machine philistines who don't need more than three temperatures and don't know what they are? Anyway, this shows another challenge in these icons, the international diversity of washing techniques and technology. (Edit: I found one possible answer online -- Euro washing ma…

I suspect washers with heaters come from places that original had cold water only. The reality is we are overthinking it - "cold/warm/hot" is about all we need, and "warm" is really just "fill as fast as possible" often, since it opens both hoses.

The water comes out 60+°C out of your faucets?

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#137

Post by 99_00 »

What is the cost/impact of laundry symbols making no sense to people like the author and me?

I don't seem to have problems doing laundry despite not understanding the care label.

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#138

Post by mrcartmeneses »

kgermino wrote: post #7

Some of these are better (the bleach one being the most obvious) but most of them are worse or neutral. If I don't know what a line under the washing machine means, how am I supposed to know what the 2nd button means. The line is at least more visible. It's similar for the iron. Maybe dots as temperature isn't obvious, but it's about as clear as the thermometer, is easy to read, and matches the icons on the iron itse…

The dots on the iron are blatantly obvious for anyone that’s used an iron or is about to use an iron because they are marked on the iron’s temperature control. That’s the beauty of standards. Similarly a lot of the symbols are marked on your washer or dryer

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#139

Post by frosted-flakes »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #114
p_l wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not regularly, as bleach is quite damaging to fabric and others, but often enough to have a bottle of bleach available in laundry room

Ok, just to clarify, do people say "bleach" when the mean products containing sodium percarbonate (like Vanish, OxiClean)? Or do you mean actual bleach (as in sodium hypochlorite)?

Actual bleach. I typically use oxi-clean, very rarely use bleach. I've found that even the most severe staining/yellowing can be removed by soaking the clothes in the washer overnight with oxi-clean (something that's not really possible with front loader machines).

Re: Laundry symbols make no sense

#140

Post by 99_00 »

AdamH12113 wrote: post #36

I have always found laundry symbols confusing. I agree with other comments that this proposed replacement has too many problems to be acceptable, but surely someone can do better than "crossed-out triangle", "underlined water cup", "Cylon wearing a jaunty cap", and my personal favorite, "literally just a circle". Weird fact: Despite having been around for decades, laundry symbols have not been assigned Unicode code p…

Are the benefits of an improvement worth the cost?

Do you know how to do your laundry despite not knowing how to read the symbols?

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