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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#131

Post by joshstrange »

tharne wrote: post #103
joshstrange wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

> Lastly you say "None of these things are a big ask.", you just want the world on a silver platter for no cost, sorry but that is a big ask, Silver platter? Lol. Each of these things would require *less* effort on the part of software companies, not more. Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay. Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it. Tracking? Just don't tra…

Do you work in tech? Like writing code? Because I honestly can't believe that someone who works in this industry could say "Each of these things would require less effort on the part of software companies, not more." with a straight face.

> Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay.

Monthly bill payments on a regular schedule are not hard, huge spikes are more difficult to deal with. Also then you have feast/famine cycles at your company and hold back completed features for a year or more to sell n+1 version. I'd rather show, in real-time (monthly or annually), what I think of the software (as in continuing to pay for it if I like it) as well as get new features as soon as they are ready instead of waiting for an arbitrary point in the future.

> Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it.

Again, do you work in tech? This is nowhere near as easy as your make it out to be.

> Tracking? Just don't track me. Actually requires the company and it's devs to write less code not more. Companies managed to successfully sell software for many years without tracking and spying on their users

This can encompass a wide range of things and I don't personally believe it's all bad, the good companies allow you to opt out [0]. None of things IDEA can collect bother me and you can disable it easily. There are good reasons for wanting this data along with things like crash reports. It's to improve the product, see what features people are really using, where you should direct your efforts, what types of project structures to optimize for. Does adding the tracking take more work? Yes but we (software developers) wouldn't do it if we didn't get value out of the results.

As far as rent-seeking, I guess it's a matter of opinion. You can make the argument that you'd rather things just never change and limit yourself to dated tools that will eventually not be supported or have features you will need in the future. Or you can continue to learn and grow with the current landscape of tools letting you take advantage of new features that might end up being game-changing.

[0] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic...

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#132

Post by LoveGracePeace »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

Actually Eclipse (and Spring Tool Suite based on Eclipse) works great. Being able to simultaneously debug several microservices in one Eclipse instance is one amazing feature.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#133

Post by CoastalCoder »

sharken wrote: post #34

I originally read it as a different editor entirely than VS Code. The slight startup delay for VS Code vs. for example Notepad++ is quite annoying. I wish there was software as cool as VS Code, but with ultra low startup time.

Is this attributed to VS Code's use of Electron?

I'm curious if VS Code's design makes it practical to replace Electron with another framework. E.g., Qt, GTK, simpler HTML, or whatever's most idiomatic for Win64 GUIs these days.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#134

Post by bitwize »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

Who's to say we aren't productive with our chosen editors?

I find malarkey like autocomplete to be distracting, so I use Emacs with it turned off. Because Emacs can be programmed and extended as it is used, it is way more productive to me than any "fixed function" IDE -- including Visual Studio Code[0] I could not do my job nearly as effectively in Visual Studio Code or JetBrains as I do in Emacs.

There is a perspective dependence to what the "best tool for the job" is. You are most productive in JetBrains and that is fine, but that doesn't make your colleagues less productive in their choice of editor.

[0] To extend Visual Studio Code, you have to start a new Node TypeScript project that uses VSCode's cumbersome API, compile it, test it in an "Extension Host", bundle it in a .vsix and then, at long last, you can use it in your regular editor. It's clear that Visual Studio Code's designers did not want end users programming their editor, let alone programming and using it at the same time. As a VSCode end user, the happy path is to select from pre-made extensions in Microsoft's extension catalog.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#135

Post by KineticLensman »

blip54321 wrote: post #115
cdrini wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. Photoshop has not withstood the test of time for me. I did a lot of Photoshop a few decades ago. I can't afford > $1000 per year for a hobby. My old Photoshop files are dead, for all intents and purposes. I do occasionally use decades-old, unmaintained open-source tools to open old files. > Audaci…

> I can't afford > $1000 per year for a hobby.

In the UK a year's license for Photoshop, Lightroom and Bridge is approx £110.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#136

Post by davidkunz »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

I'd rather say instead of paying money they should spend time to master their tools. I don't see musicians complaining about learning their instrument.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#137

Post by hansvm »

imwillofficial wrote: post #122
Shared404 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. But if I want to use Atom I can fork it, or keep the source around. It doesn't go away from my environment until _I_ say it does. And Photoshop has become more and more user hostile over time. > Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprie…

“It is impossible for libre software to force updates” This isn’t even close to being true

If it did you'd just build a version with the offensive code removed?

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#138

Post by nojito »

tharne wrote: post #82
nojito wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to do with freedom. People are naturally cheap. Which is why free tiers are so popular.

> Nothing to do with freedom. People are naturally cheap. I don't think this is true. Look at bars. I can go to a liquor store and buy alcohol at a fraction of what it costs in a bar and invite my friends over to drink together. Yet, bars which charge a massive markup on the same exact alcohol, do not seem to be in danger of going out of business. Or look at coffee. You can buy a bag of Starbucks coffee in the grocer…

That's paying for convenience which is a different behavior.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#139

Post by heurisko »

joshstrange wrote: post #84
tharne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

I'm a fan of Jetbrains and am now on their discounted subscription.

They are quite involved in the development of languages too. My suspicion is they have an interest in creating new language features, that users will need updated IDEs for!

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#140

Post by axkdev »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

I was a jetbrains guy until I discovered the vim/neovim ecosystem. Yes, configurling vim takes time but 1.its fun 2. I can fine tune it to my specific work flows in ways simply not achievable with Idea or any other editor. After configuration is finished, the actual time it takes to do my work is comparable with a full fledged ide. It's probably even faster, considering vim loads faster and also forces you to use the keyboard for everything.
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