It’s like installing an app on your computer; your giving the app permissions to your computer… there’s so much Google can’t control that it’s dumb to blame them here… I’m not saying “every end user should be wary of their apps and test them all”, but basically… what’s the alternative? Build your own mobile os, and then side load and very every apk?!
Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
131–140 of 174 posts
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#132While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too. In particular because not everything is a runtime permission . E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.
My biggest pet peeve is optional runtime permissions that are not optional. I have a CO2 monitor that you read through an android app. It cost like $250. If you don't give it geolocation permission, it just says "this app needs geolocation permission" and shows you a button to go to your settings to enable it. Any time you disable geolocation, you get that message and button again. I have yet to find any geolocation…
At the risk of getting off topic… For anyone now curious about CO₂ monitors, I’ve been running an imitation of this setup and have no complaints:
https://github.com/larsp/co2monitor
Adafruit’s SCD-30 is also nice and pairs well with a Pi Zero W.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
My biggest pet peeve is optional runtime permissions that are not optional. I have a CO2 monitor that you read through an android app. It cost like $250. If you don't give it geolocation permission, it just says "this app needs geolocation permission" and shows you a button to go to your settings to enable it. Any time you disable geolocation, you get that message and button again. I have yet to find any geolocation…
The app needs the geolocation permission to access the bluetooth radio and scan for devices. Any company can can technically do geolocation using nothing but nearby bluetooth MAC addresses if they have location information for any other phone/device in bluetooth range.
Ah, that would make sense. It is indeed a bluetooth connection and it scans for any nearby devices. Thank you for clarifying that, I appreciate it, and I feel a lot better about the app!
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
My biggest pet peeve is optional runtime permissions that are not optional. I have a CO2 monitor that you read through an android app. It cost like $250. If you don't give it geolocation permission, it just says "this app needs geolocation permission" and shows you a button to go to your settings to enable it. Any time you disable geolocation, you get that message and button again. I have yet to find any geolocation…
The app needs the geolocation permission to access the bluetooth radio and scan for devices. Any company can can technically do geolocation using nothing but nearby bluetooth MAC addresses if they have location information for any other phone/device in bluetooth range.
What you said sounds plausible and I believe it.
Assuming you’re right, it’s really sad that multiple sibling posts assume that the app was doing something shady and selling the user’s data. It shows, in general, how little trust people have in apps on their own phones.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#135Honest question, how many of us read permissions after scrolling through the description and then download ? It might make sense if you have metered bandwidth, not otherwise. I first try to find an ad-free app, install it and then see if it asks unnecessary permissions and go from there.
If I open up a basic text note app and I see basically every single permission listed, I get an idea of the mentality involved in the creation of the app. I specifically prioritize apps that ask for fewer permissions.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
The app needs the geolocation permission to access the bluetooth radio and scan for devices. Any company can can technically do geolocation using nothing but nearby bluetooth MAC addresses if they have location information for any other phone/device in bluetooth range.
What you said sounds plausible and I believe it. Assuming you’re right, it’s really sad that multiple sibling posts assume that the app was doing something shady and selling the user’s data. It shows, in general, how little trust people have in apps on their own phones.
I could not agree more.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you have to rely on people like Tim Cook ( who is anything but a regular person and could literally afford to have a hand crafted phone and OS build for himself) to convince your government of something for your benefit, something is wrong. And btw, a huge amount of Apple's "privacy" schtick is pure marketing combined with gatekeeping. Oh no, we couldn't allow users to have the choice where to install an app from,…
I don't have time to try to convince Congress about privacy. But Tim does - in fact he recently wrote a letter in hopes that it'll add some weight to the cause. Whats wrong with relying on people who have the means to get shit done if they're clearly capable and willing?
The first issue is Apple's vision of privacy requires absolute trust in them and providing them with access to all your data so they can leverage whatever parts they decide is useful for their software.
The second issue is Apple facilitated the modern form of having no privacy - apps with discrete access to all our private data, tracking us in real time, using APIs Apple designed, using an approval process Apple cheaped out on, and they have profited immensely from this state of affairs.
The third issue is Apple is often at odds with consumers, there is an entire Wikipedia article about their litigation from when they fucked people who buy ebooks, tech workers they employed, parents who let their kids play iOS games, people who bought laptops with butterfly keyboards, developers they chose to compete with, they often do things contrary to our interests and rights.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#138Android should abandon the current permission mode
Everything should be permitted by default, however, the user can choose to return blank, fake or real data.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
The app needs the geolocation permission to access the bluetooth radio and scan for devices. Any company can can technically do geolocation using nothing but nearby bluetooth MAC addresses if they have location information for any other phone/device in bluetooth range.
What you said sounds plausible and I believe it. Assuming you’re right, it’s really sad that multiple sibling posts assume that the app was doing something shady and selling the user’s data. It shows, in general, how little trust people have in apps on their own phones.
Trust is earnt. I can reasonably have a default level of low trust for practically any app. This isn’t some blind anger stance. Its not blanket mistrust or some kind of ignorance. It is healthy scepticism. Totally reasonable in today's environment.
Plenty of app developers have muddied the water enough that apps should have a lower level of trust given to them. Stealing data is a reasonable fear now. It is not reasonable to assert otherwise.
It is therefore reasonable for a person to wonder why geolocation is requested but then be suspicious why it doesn't seem to need it. Regardless of the underlying technical reason. Those technical reasons are part of informed consent. If I don't have informed consent, do I really have consent?
Its also not a sad state at all. Its healthy. Its part of the modern landscape that someone can be suspicious and rightly so. If not, you're setting people up for misfortune. Is there some reason you want people to blindly trust like this? That seems almost abusive to me.
Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ones that don't randomly change their UI on a regular basis I'm genuinely curious what apps you're talking about here. Everyone does this nonsense. Everything changes all the time. Everything. I don't like it either, but to state that it somehow doesn't happen in the Apple ecosystem seems like a pretty big whopper.
Here's a random example: I think it was like 2017, 2018 when Google launched messages for web. For starters, when it launched, it was located at messages.android.com I don't think it was much time later before they moved it to messages.google.com, which i think was in line with their SMS's apps like 5th rebranding, this time from Android Messages to Google Messages. Originally the app had an overall blue theme, and f…
Wow..imagine the churn amongst the teams working on this