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Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

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131–140 of 206 posts

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#131
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M1 to M1+ would be like the release of the next year edition of a car. M1 to M2 would be like the release of the next generation of a car. A lot of people get hyped up for the release of the next generation of a car.

Major car models are introduced every ~6 years with refreshes at 3 years.

Different types of products have different product cycle times, but that doesn't make the comparison between stages of the product refresh inaccurate.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#132
post #113
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They’re on the same process node, and only increased frequency a bit. It's going from N5 to N5P, chosen by Apple over N4. > But no one [expects] that from Intel or AMD every year anymore. That's not accurate, a minor performance upgrade after almost 2 years is the exact thing Intel has gotten a lot of flack for in recent years. The fact that people are willing to defend it is really exclusive to Apple and their unb…

>It's going from N5 to N5P, chosen by Apple over N4. Any info as to why?

N4 is still (despite the name) part of TSMC’s 5nm process family and offers little to no performance/efficiency improvement over N5P.

N4 increases the number of EUV layers so the main improvements should be in cost and yield which would have been interesting to Apple, but N5P hit volume manufacturing earlier allowing Apple to ship the M2 earlier and with more capacity.

Waiting for N3 would have offered a considerable performance and efficiency boost but that’d realistically have delayed M2 to the first half of 2023.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#133
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s quite an exaggeration - many states disallow or severely limit non-competes, and in many of the states that allow them, they are often unenforced, or easy to get around. So yeah - some people in some parts of the country are locked behind non-competes (if they aren’t willing to move), but it’s hardly everyone.

That is a gross exaggeration of the situation. California has a total ban on non-competes. A very small handful of other states put restrictions on non-competes, but even those generally allow non-competition agreements if time limited, and the employee makes over ~$100k. It’s widely accepted that prohibiting non-competes has been a significant factor in the tech industry success in California. As one example, it is…

Non-competes without a monetary attachment are hard to enforce from the employer side. Judges don't look kindly to preventing someone from making a living. Of course companies hope the threat of going to court makes people back down - like Amazon who is known bully in this area.

But yes, I wish all states would just ban them outright. Or at least make them require compensation. If an employee is important enough to require a non-compete, then they are important enough to pay during the non-compete time period.

Does CA also ban them as part of an acquisition? I've seen them as part of the sale so everyone doesn't quit the day after the acquisition and start a competitor.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#134
post #44

Thanks to being based on their phone chips Apple came out of the gate with the M1 and cleaned everyone’s clock on performance-per-watt while putting in good to great numbers in general (as a CPU). But their rate of improvement on the A series has been slowing on general tasks. They’re on the same process node, and only increased frequency a bit. Is it really that surprising that performance didn’t take a massive jump…

> But no one exits that from Intel or AMD every year anymore. I've been hearing that since Skylake, at every single processor generation that the gains are too modest. That's more than a decade at this point.

Skylake (6th) came out in 2015. It's just that due to the 10nm delay we then had Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake and Comet Lake all being refreshes of Skylake on the same process until we got to Rocket Lake (11th) - a backport of a 10nm uarch to 14nm with the somewhat predictable power issues. Only with Alder Lake (12th) we actually got the first real new uarch on the process it was designed for since Skylake.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#135
post #2

There's a lot of claims of poached talent in the article, basically claiming [paraphrasing] "Apple, maintaining their stressful work env and not paying to shore that up lost some rockstars" How true is this? If they're on the money it's an excellent example of a talent retention miss leading to a demonstrable mediocrity in delivery.

Work culture can mean a couple of things though. Building and delivering the M1 was probably a great experience. Maybe like the hardware equivalent of greenfield development. The M1 is out, and now it's about continual refinements. The people who love going from 0->1 are not always the same people who enjoy going from 1->100.

And while Apple isn't the max payer in SV, I'm sure they pay fine compared to other big tech. The issue is, chips are big right now and no existing big tech can compete compensation wise with shares in a growth chip startup. With VC drying up, I expect this to change back in Apple (and other big techs) favor.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really great article from Anandtech with benchmarks and analysis, it explained a lot of things. > The overall performance gains are quite disappointing when you factor in the raw cost increase that comes with this new M2 and the fact that it has been nearly 2 years since the M1’s introduction. Also the logic of article in the title is little weird to me. M1 was introduced in the same year as A14, they use t…

Phones are the flagship product. They will always get the latest and greatest first, including cores, die shrinks, etc etc.

Which is weird because most iPhone users use all the power for stuff like WhatsApp. iPhones are plenty fast already (honestly probably mostly due to a well cared-for UI).

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#137
My thoughts are it doesn’t even matter that much. Apple is not selling me a CPU - they’re selling me a laptop. Yeah it’s a critical piece but Apple is all about your overall outcome.

If they were a CPU “arms dealer” like Intel or AMD it’d matter more I think.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#138

Why does the biggest and richest company in the world ever have to suffer from talent leaving because they don’t get paid enough? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Why would compensation be the decisive factor for top talent in a highly compensated field? They have probably already made enough money that they don't have to work for living, and they are probably genuinely interested in their work because they made it to the top. Apple processors are already in the market, so the most interesting work is done, and it may be time to start looking for new challenges.

Spending goes up with compensation in general. Then it becomes the norm and you don't want to lose it. Sure you can retire but probably not at a level where you can fly first class everywhere, stay in five star hotels and stay on private islands.

That aside once people have kids the sky is the limit for giving them the "best life possible." Nanny, private tutors, private schools (and/or a house in Cupertino since it's Apple), college funds, house with good amenities nearby, etc. I probably missed some costs in there.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often unreported, Apple also has $100B in debt. Google and Microsoft have a better net cash and cash equivalents position than Apple. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/long-te...

Getting debt is the only way they could bring their cash home to avoid tax.

Can you explain the process? I can’t make it work to avoid tax. I assume Apple’s debt is credit lines to fund inventory.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#140
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things don't become the "est" anything by being wasteful.

My dad used to tell a story when as a kid he worked at a gas station. Guy shows up with a Ferrari, asks for a full tank, pays with a large note and my dad asks him to keep the change. The guy replied - boy, I got a lot of money Really, a lot. You know how I got them? I never gave anything away for free. Hand that change over.

Interesting. Was it common in the past, or in your region, for the service worker to actually ask for the change? I've never heard of that, or experienced it in my own life. Usually the customer plays the only active part in the "keep the change" interaction.
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