Apple Unveils M2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#131

Post by DougWebb » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:41 PM UTC

mwcampbell wrote: post #84

threeseed wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their answer is this: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/microsoft-will-boost... They will need to get developers up to speed porting their apps to ARM before they are even in a position to re-boot their Windows ARM strategy. But this is a multi-year journey which is likely to give Intel/AMD time to produce something more competitive.

Ooh, I want one of these. I've long wished that Microsoft would release its own small-form-factor desktop to compete with the Mac mini.

I've been running an Odyssey from Seeed Studio for a while now, as an in-house dev server running SQL Server and IIS. It's the form factor you want, and it's been flawless (even though it's underpowered for what I'm doing with it.)

https://www.seeedstudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=win10

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#132

Post by airstrike » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:41 PM UTC

dt3ft wrote: post #42

api wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. They're busy turning off their users with dark patterns, terrible UX, ads and spam in the OS, and endless amounts of unnecessary telemetry.

I just had to hack/patch windows 11 in order to bring back "never combine taskbar windows" functionality which existed in windows 10. I am strongly considering switching over at this point. Removal of "never combine" is such a productivity kill that it baffles me how this thing rolled out at all. Who took over the wheel over at Microsoft and who left, that made this major breaking change take place?

Thanks for the heads up. I'm never upgrading if I can help it...

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#133

Post by Shadonototra » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

burmanm wrote: post #38

Shadonototra wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you provide fanless laptop, and extended battery life if you don't care about maximizing performance while maintaining ultra low power usage? That is why nobody buys windows based laptops anymore and the macbook air is the best selling laptop you don't need apple marketing team to see how people are fed-up with hot windows laptops and their noisy fans (and blind btw, pun intended or maybe not lol)

Living in a bubble is always nice though. How many laptops are even used as laptops? Most of the world is not using Apple laptops and is not going to. The Facebook community around you might, but that's not the entire world. The "nobody" in your list still accounts for what, 90% of the laptop buyers? Even more? Most of the powerful laptops are neither Macs, as those go to the gaming laptops where - this is a big surp…

> Most of the powerful laptops are neither Macs, as those go to the gaming laptops where - this is a big surprise - games and their performance counts. Apple has no answer there.

Games? the biggest market is the Mobile market, Desktop market is shrinking year after year, it'll become a niche very soon

Ever heard of Genshin Impact? https://gamerant.com/genshin-impact-made-more-money-in-its-f...

And please learn to project a little when you do some analysis, yesterday is long gone, tomorrow is what's going on

And when say nobody, i talk about the people making a deliberate choice, in that group, rarer are the people choosing a windows laptop, other than the people replacing their IT fleets, or your granny picking a cheap laptop because she has no clue what an OS is anyways and everything is pre-installed with Windows, for some reasons ;)

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#134

Post by zamalek » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

Shadonototra wrote: post #13

refulgentis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years from now people will grok more fundamentally that launching 2 process nodes ahead of Intel via TSMC was the big win. For now, we'll deal with marketing-ese about how "other CPU vendors have to choose between power and performance" from Apple's head of semiconductor engineering, and posts on this page like the one saying Microsoft doesn't care and Apple's about to take over computing.

How do you provide fanless laptop, and extended battery life if you don't care about maximizing performance while maintaining ultra low power usage? That is why nobody buys windows based laptops anymore and the macbook air is the best selling laptop you don't need apple marketing team to see how people are fed-up with hot windows laptops and their noisy fans (and blind btw, pun intended or maybe not lol)

> fanless laptop

See also: "how do you provide ever thinner laptops?"

The reason you're so sensitive to fans is because Apple's attention to cooling goes far, far, beyond a joke. Modern processors will throttle at their maximum temperature (typically 100C for CPUs). Apple's approach has always been to depend on that as a cooling solution. People have improved the cooling on the M1 to something in the ballpark of the M1 Pro, and performance lifts to match.

M1 has certainly thrown the whole compute-per-TDP equation into chaos, and you'll definitely see more performance prior to hitting tj-max, but when that comes, performance will come crashing down. They don't have fanless cooling, they essentially have no cooling.

If your workloads don't require extended periods of compute, then the fanless Apples can't be beat. Claiming that the M1 beats x86 laptops across the board is, well, "very uninformed " to say it kindly. To say it frankly, fans of high-end devices (whether Windows or Linux) do get very noisy in the face of uninformed bullshit.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#135

Post by smoldesu » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #21

beckingz wrote: post #5

"M2 takes the industry-leading performance per watt of M1 even further with an 18 percent faster CPU, a 35 percent more powerful GPU, and a 40 percent faster Neural Engine" 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. Interesting to see if this will ever make it to their desktop computers.

> 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. 18% faster at the same wattage , which means 18% higher perf/watt.

GPU wattage seems to be increasing, but that appears to be linearly correlated with the number of cores they're adding. Still a bit of an "Intel Moment" all things considered, but not as bad as it could have been.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#136

Post by cevn » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

jacooper wrote: post #73

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #52

All i want is a laptop with similar build quality, battery life, and Ubuntu.

I think you should be hopeful for Aeshi Linux.

Asahi Linux. And it is awesome, the future is here. Just waiting for the GPU driver and ... suspend... and brightness and sound.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#137

Post by DonHopkins » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

I got an M1 Macbook Pro, and yeah, the processor is fast and cool and all that, but the most absolutely wonderful thing about it by far is that there's no touchbar!

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#138

Post by paulmd » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

Shadonototra wrote: post #54

macintux wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s key advantage here, though, is one Microsoft would never voluntarily embrace: abandoning x86-64 in favor of ARM. Apple is willing to force its partners and customers to make the switch or get left behind. Microsoft would never do that, so Windows on ARM will presumably languish in application support indefinitely.

x86 is dead, full of security issues and is energy-intensive smartphones, even embedded devices, including cars nowadays are all on ARM, servers are building momentum too, not because it is shiny, but because of tangible gains on many aspects > Apple is willing to force its partners and customers to make the switch or get left behind. That's not true at all, the chip doesn't matter when you sell software, hardware an…

> x86 is dead, full of security issues

to be clear though: spectre/meltdown are not an x86 issue. POWER, SPARC, and indeed even ARM (although only some of their products have OoO/speculation) were affected as well. There is no magic to ARM that magically makes it secure if you don't protect against side-effecting.

I generally agree with the rest of your points, Microsoft is stuck in legacy hell with x86 and they are stuck with a customer base that specifically values that (everyone else has departed for linux or osx, they have "dead sea effect"ed themselves into a high-maintenance customer base), and they've done a super shitty job in general with 5 different generations of UX lava-layered over the top, and x86 is clearly falling behind in energy efficiency. But security isn't something intrinsic to ARM or x86, you can design a secure x86 processor and you can design an insecure ARM processor.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#139

Post by Beltalowda » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #96

0n the return on MagSafe: they should have let Jony "Form over Function" Ive go much sooner. Maybe we'd still have audio jacks on iPhones.

Back in the day when laptops still came with a CD/DVD drive by default I had a customer with a broken MacBook that didn't power on at all, and some expensive disc was stuck in the drive.

Pretty much all disc drives that have been produced in the history of disc drives come with a little pinhole where you can stick in a paperclip to manually push the opening mechanism exactly for this kind of scenario, so you can recover your disc if your computer or drive fails.

Except Apple computers, of course, because such a useful piece of functionality would be ugly and an abomination unto Saint Jobs, or something. So I had to spend a few hours opening up that MacBook that very clearly wasn't designed with "opening up" in mind. I was lucky this machine wasn't in warranty and dead, so putting it back together wasn't really a concern.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#140

Post by icyfox » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #115

I'd still buy the 14" Pro for the more ports, slower chip for more $ or not. And real function keys instead of a touchbar? They seem to be making weirdly inconsistent choices in the product line. I thought they were going to be getting rid of the touchbar (and maybe adding more ports?) and they were only still in the legacy 13" because it was legacy. But apparently they mean to indefinitely have a 13" Pro with a touc…

I can't figure this one out either. The Air now has the same screen as the MBP 13", same processor, slimmer form factor. The air is also $100 cheaper than the MBP so that's not a justification. The only thing that is different on the specs page is the GPU count 10-cores versus 8. Why keep the 13?