Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price • Hacker News Board

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#131

Post by dharmab » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

This recent video on motorcycle dealerships argues that dealerships are beneficial for the financial arms of manufacturers and also manage risk due to warranty/recall work and sales flops.

https://youtu.be/meHYBhcpdvQ

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#132

Post by signatoremo » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

superultra wrote: post #62

I bought a (Toyota) Scion xB when it first came to the States in 2004. The brand rollout was fixed-price, advertised as no-haggle. A big play for that era's Gen Z, Gen X. Focus was on personal customizations as upgrades, not much else rom the mono-spec model. I loved the whole concept. Dealerships hated it. I loved that car, drove it until it the wheels fell off. Point being, Tesla is hardly the first one to pull off…

As someone else mentioned, it wasn’t online. You still had to deal with dealership. Sometimes Scion showroom was right next to Toyota’s one, practically the same people.

Also, it no longer exists. Dealers don’t like it because they make less profit off Scion cars. The incentive wasn’t there. You can see how it is different than the direct model Tesla use, and Ford is contemplating to adopt

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#133

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #80

dijonman2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with anything?

maybe the amount of profit made in being a middle-man between the manufacturer and consumer end-user is unreasonable and unwarranted?

It's only unreasonable if they are not providing value. Lots of us get into business exactly because we can provide value and simultaneously become wealthy. This is no sin.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#134

Post by TreyS » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

Dealerships are major job providers in small towns and provide some of the better jobs. Salespeople, loan officers, etc.

Think replacing local grocery stores with Walmart. Low end jobs stay, high end jobs go away. Further hurts small towns.

My guess is that a good chunk of the efficiencies from this model will go to Ford corporate so it’s a wealth transfer from small towns to big co managers / stockholders.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#135

Post by cdash » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #126

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

The way I've heard it explained before, feel free to correct me if my facts are wrong: State sales taxes. The big 3 auto makers are all located in Michigan, USA. If they sold a vehicle direct, the sales tax dollars goes to the State of Michigan. Which means all the other states are missing out on *significant* tax dollars. To force each state to get tax dollars, local dealerships were established. That way tax dollar…

It used to be you could avoid taxes for things purchased online even though you had a responsibility to report it yourself.

To answer your question though, you pay tax to the state it is delivered to when ordering from Amazon.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#136

Post by pavon » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #85

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales porti…

Agreed. I have nothing but bad experiences taking cars to the dealership for repair, and normally choose to avoid them for everything except for recalls. However, when buying an EV, I want to know that the manufacturer has repair facilities nearby since third-party EV mechanics are almost non-existent at this point.

If Ford is deliberately bypassing their dealerships for sales, then I would expect the repair service provided by dealerships to be even worse than normal, since they have no motivation to make you a repeat customer. And if not the dealership, where will I have the truck serviced?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#137

Post by wumpus » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #126

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

The way I've heard it explained before, feel free to correct me if my facts are wrong: State sales taxes. The big 3 auto makers are all located in Michigan, USA. If they sold a vehicle direct, the sales tax dollars goes to the State of Michigan. Which means all the other states are missing out on *significant* tax dollars. To force each state to get tax dollars, local dealerships were established. That way tax dollar…

You pay sales taxes in the state you register the car in, period. Doesn't matter where the seller is.

I lived in Virginia, bought a car in Delaware... no sales tax in DE. Wohoo? No, had to pay Virginia sales tax when registering the car.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#138

Post by guerrilla » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

> Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales?

Proximity and diversity. How are you going to have direct sales depots in every random town in the world? And which towns get which brands? Makes no sense.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#139

Post by dfxm12 » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

c4wrd wrote: post #94

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

In my opinion, we lose a lot, some things practical and others societal. Practically first, when I’m in the market for a new vehicle, I’m not sure which I honestly want. I like being able to go to a dealership and find something that convinced me otherwise from what I came to originally look at it. In the most recent case, I was really wanting a truck and being able to see them in person, how I fit, etc, was what sol…

at the end of the day it allows for more people to have jobs and participate in the economy.

It's not like selling a car is a super specialized skill. We're also at very low unemployment. The people who were selling cars can switch jobs. People switch jobs all the time. Losing a job generally doesn't prevent someone from participating in the economy.

Mechanics can open their own shop or work at a Pep Boys. Likewise, the underwriters can work elsewhere, probably even remotely.

At some point we, technologists, are going to remove everyone’s job from them and we’ll act surprised societal uprisings happen because there’s no jobs available to the average Joe.

This is a problem of late stage capitalism, not technologists or automation per se. A job is only mostly a requirement to have your needs met because our society says it is. It doesn't have to be that way.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#140

Post by favorited » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #126

paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

The way I've heard it explained before, feel free to correct me if my facts are wrong: State sales taxes. The big 3 auto makers are all located in Michigan, USA. If they sold a vehicle direct, the sales tax dollars goes to the State of Michigan. Which means all the other states are missing out on *significant* tax dollars. To force each state to get tax dollars, local dealerships were established. That way tax dollar…

States already account for this. For example, in Massachusetts, if you purchase a vehicle in a different state, you are subject to a "use-tax" which is equal to the Commonwealth's sales-tax. Otherwise, car dealerships would be non-viable in MA – everyone would take a quick jaunt over to NH to buy their cars.