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Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

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Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#131
Submitted title was "Office 365 implementing AI to detect employees colluding, leaving and more". That broke the site guidelines: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The proper place to include that sort of interpretation is by adding it in a comment in the thread. Then your interpretation is on a level playing field with everyone else's (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...). Also, a comment gives you room to actually substantiate your interpretation.

On the other hand, a thread like this probably wouldn't have gotten attention without the sensational title in the first place, so this kind of submission is a borderline case and at worst a venial sin. (We still change the title once it does make the frontpage though.)

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#133
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely strong statement that is obviously not true, except in the most weak and generic form. How do you think reality works?

Yeah if you want to defraud people, sure. No auditing required. Who's being dishonest here and making false statements? (Can you see the irony???)

That's a false equivalency. You seem like you've never worked with honest people.

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#134
post #69
post #32

The only way this sort of thing changes is with labor organization ie unionization. The government won’t save you from efforts like this. The government represents the interests of the capital owning class. The demonization of unions is one of the most successful cases of propaganda in the last century. It’s gone so far s people who will die on the hill of Jeff Bezos paying slightly more taxes because everyone seems…

Emacs would never spy on you like that, would it?

M-x psychoanalyze-microsoft-pinheads

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#135
post #75

Anyone else miss Office 97? You just installed it locally off a disc and it just worked when you needed it. You didn’t even need internet.

I just want a simple version of MS Access in the cloud.

Airtable?

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The demonization of unions is over the most successful cases of propaganda in the last century. It is possible to see unions as both the source of some and solution to other forms of abuse.

Yes I wanted to say something very similar. The idea of having an organization that collectively represents my interests against things I oppose (like this) feels good. Unfortunately unions will not represent my interests in a huge swath of other areas (meritocracy, politics, etc). So choosing a union just trades one set of shitty things for another. For all but unskilled workers, the benefits are basically an illusi…

Another case where Americans seem more than willing to ignore the experiences of the rest of the world.

Many workforces in Australia are highly unionised. Unions have been largely effective - even in recent years - at using their collective bargaining power for the good of the worker. Hell, our ruling political party is literally called the Labor party. It has strong union ties and a history of passing pro-worker legislation. Union corruption exists as it exists in all areas where power can be had, but in Australia’s case you’d truly be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by saying “unions are bad!”, even in industries like tech where we’ve never really sought collective bargaining on a large scale, the universal protections ushered in by the union movement benefit all workers here. It sounds like you’ve fallen for the same propaganda as everyone else but you particularly think that you have “smarter” reasons. You don’t.

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#137
post #50

There are engineers who thought it would be a good idea to develop and train these models.

Are there? I think it's much more likely there are engineers that were told to work on this, and thought that working on this would be fun, let them have an ML project, be a learning opportunity, give them something good for their performance packet, give them good experience, be good for visibility in the org, and many things like that.

I don't know why jumping to the most far reaching evil option is popular in threads like this is the default.

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#138

This seems to be office 365 implementing monitoring of official communications of employees & contractors for the office account? I don’t think it extends to a personal office 365 account, at least it didn’t seem to. Why is this exactly newsworthy? Any communication through official channels is the property of the employer anyway. To collude, leave & other stuff use personal channels maybe.

> Why is this exactly newsworthy? Any communication through official channels is the property of the employer anyway.

Pretty clear one of the major things they're going for here is detecting "jobsite troublemakers", ie employees who are upset with job conditions/agitating for improvements/discussing salaries/etc, which is given specific legal protection. It is explicitly legal and protected for employees to discuss labor conditions, organizing, or salaries regardless of whether you do it "on company property" or "on company chat". Just because the company owns it doesn't mean you have no legal rights - just like a company can dismiss you for no reason but they can't dismiss you for any reason.

They are wrapping it up with "think of the children" justifications like "employees who are discussing salary might be considering leaving and they might take nefarious action if they do so" but that's the core of the situation here - these are tools to detect and fight against legally-protected activities by employees.

> Workplace collusion: The workplace collusion classifier detects messages referencing secretive actions such as concealing information or covering instances of a private conversation, interaction, or information.

> "The leavers classifier detects messages that explicitly express intent to leave the organization, which is an early signal that may put the organization at risk of malicious or inadvertent data exfiltration upon departure"

Hypothetically, do you think it would be a good idea for Microsoft to build a classifier and provide managers with a list of potential "religiously devout", eg based on correlated work/away periods, language patterns, etc? Sure, it's a legally protected classification, but there's an elevated risk of extremist activity, which surely presents a business risk, right? So why not?

Re: Microsoft Purview: Additional classifiers for Communication Compliance (preview)

#140
post #107

Seems to only apply to messages, for now. My understanding is that unless a call on Teams is explicitly recorded, there's no capability for the organization to monitor the content within. Is this still accurate? Are there any features in the pipeline planning to change this? Microsoft offering "communications compliance" within the same product is certainly chilling enough as it is. The reality where people lose thei…

given how well voice recognition work nowadays it's really a matter of cost of implementation rather than if?
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