Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can’t it be both? I’d you truly believe the earth is flat because the person who taught you geography purposely led you to believe so, isn’t that both a sincere belief and a lie?
Yes, since the definition of 'lie' covers both intentional and unintentional deception, but I interpreted the above comment to be referring to intentional lies. " Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power" doesn't read as sincere belief to me.
What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
131–140 of 167 posts
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#132The final point about positivism is important. Geeks love naturalistic explanations of mythological ideas, however far fetched. Trolls are really cultural memory of Neanderthals. Dragons are dinosaurs. The witch craze was due to ergot poisoning etc. If anyone is interested in what actual historians think about such theories, read for example this: https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/06/delphic-oracle.ht... Tl/dr:…
Edit: I got this completely wrong, see comment from @Joeri . > Trolls are really cultural memory of Neanderthals Stating this as a fact is wrong, it's conjecture, and very dubious at that. In fact a few seconds research and common sense would undermine that. There are legends of giants in africa https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/gigantes/Africa.html > but the range of Neanderthals included that, see "Known Neanderth…
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can dragons be memories of dinosaurs? Or do you think some skeletons were found?
Quick quote from Wikipedia (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon#Myth_origins ): "In her book The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times (2000), Adrienne Mayor argues that some stories of dragons may have been inspired by ancient discoveries of fossils belonging to dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals.[19] She argues that the dragon lore of northern India may have been ins…
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
The role must have been filled by dozens of different individuals over the centuries, it seems reasonable to assume that there was some kind of induction process for new recruits.
I think so. Churches have practices that some people might deem a bit odd. They involve a learned process and without the influence of drugs.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is plausible, we only have to look to social media and politicians to see what they do to people. Take prophecy its much like crystal ball gazing, where the crystal ball reader gives a vague report which is open to interpretation for people who are looking for hope can get something to cling onto. A good example is left handed people have historically been seen as wrong 'uns in the bible so right handed people can…
You should check out the story of Ehud in Judges. He’s left handed and specifically successful in his task because of what was otherwise seen as a deficiency at that time.
So as AI can show Judges are biased and there is different times of the day people seeking parole should go before the judge to seek a favourable outcome, like just after lunch, science is slowly stealing everyone's privacy and there is no where to hide!
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think so. Churches have practices that some people might deem a bit odd. They involve a learned process and without the influence of drugs.
Alcohol consumption (and production) by monks and priests is well documented. Also they hotbox the whole church a few times a year, maybe the mix used to be more interesting, especially when you have a monastery with a good medicinal garden.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#137> Moreover, ethylene in the concentrations that cause trances is extremely flammable, and there’s no historical record of any explosions or fires. That doesn't seem to be true. Herodotus 2.180: "When the Amphictyons paid three hundred talents to have the temple that now stands at Delphi finished (as that which was formerly there burnt down by accident), it was the Delphians' lot to pay a fourth of the cost." [1] I'm…
"There is no historical record of..." is an interesting assertion. On the one hand, it's easy to make and sort of requires no citation because there wouldn't be one. "There is no historical record of Caesar's fondness for juggling." But on the other hand, it's a dangerous claim because it's extremely falsifiable, like in your example. But I suppose it's easy to say "whoops, I read all of the historical records but fo…
I had to make this claim recently. There is also a shocking lack of evidence for the use of cannabis in the Greco-Roman period (apart from Herodotus discussing the Scythians—and a reference in Exodus).
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#138Our question is: Why did the Pythia go into a frenzy? The major theory you hear about this is that the Oracle was ingesting some kind of drug, possibly a psychedelic derived from rye fungi - but who can say with any certainty? Maybe it was just similar to the 'speaking in tounges' religious phenomenon, which has examples from all over the world: https://www.skeptical-science.com/religion/speaking-in-tongu...
Maybe it was just BS. Don't write off the simplest explanation.
One woman and her priests became a central clearing house for the ideas and issues of the entire Greek world. She was almost certainly the most influential person in the world.
The Oracle work was combine with the Panhellenic Pythian games (music, art and sports). In the off season, Apollo went north to the Hyperboreans — and the cult of Dionysus took over. The Oracle was part of a whole cultural complex that played many functional values. I’m not sure what being “just BS” could mean in this context.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think most people "lie about it", at least not intentionally. I think it's more likely they get really caught up in the moment or something among those lines. I am interested in what in what it would be like to go to a concert of a bar with one of these people.
One of my takeaways from listening to a lot of Telltale (an ex Jehovah's Witness atheist channel on youtube) was that the stereotypical charismatic Christian glossolalia is probably a learned skill. I have heard that people who left these groups are still capable of exhibiting it on command. I have not actually met an ex-charismatic who could demonstrate this to me, but I would be interested in meeting one. I have ne…
I’ve experienced tingling strongly one time. It was sort of like a non-localized internal “buzzing”, kind of like if you’d drunk a lot of coffee but without the tightening of the muscles. I’ve also experienced kind of an internal itch, where it’s just easier to shake my hands.
The charismatics I’ve been a part of are more of the love flavor, though. (e.g. “but we do not have a spirit of fear, but of love, power, and [wisdom]”) This feels like a warmth in the chest, and if you partner with it tends to lead either to feeling very relaxed and happy, or more energetic and happy.
It took me quite a while to be able to sense it, though, similar to how it took me a long time be able to taste the flavor of an individual herb in a dish of food. And there’s an element of partnering, too. If you’re resistant to the whole idea, or mad at God/the Church/people/life you’re a lot less likely to experience it. There are times where I missed the experience because I was resistant. Also, it seems like some people are quicker to be affected; by the time I sense something strongly, everyone else is likely to be on the floor. I’m not sure if it’s something about how I’m made or just a resistance to being out of control.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not training. Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power. Seems a lot simpler than "drugs".
It is plausible, we only have to look to social media and politicians to see what they do to people. Take prophecy its much like crystal ball gazing, where the crystal ball reader gives a vague report which is open to interpretation for people who are looking for hope can get something to cling onto. A good example is left handed people have historically been seen as wrong 'uns in the bible so right handed people can…
A deus ex machina, if you will.