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Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

bbc.com

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Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#131

Post by ipaddr »

izacus wrote: post #19

There's a lot of "considering" and "thinking" in this article, but how many people are ACTUALLY quitting over that? What's the increase in turnover because of WFH policies? A few % total? EDIT: Oh, just saw this in the article: >Although there isn’t any hard data to show increased quits due to ending flexible work specifically, anecdotes of worker exits are starting to trickle in. Carry on then.

I've passed on companies looking to return to the office and will not consider any in person job. This reduces the workforce.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#132

Post by jleyank »

hellisothers wrote: post #65
spookthesunset wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote workers should be mostly contract in the first place. If you look at how most are operating odds are good they’d pass almost every test from the IRS. All they’d need is to take a couple gigs at once. And why shouldn’t they take multiple gigs at once? It’s not like people working remote are at their current employer for the culture or politics or anything. In fact most do remote to avoid that crap. Might as wel…

The main test has nothing to do with remoteness and everything to do with how much influence your employer has over your day to day work. None of the companies I’m familiar with that are in this struggle have suddenly let the workers have more free determination over their work then before.

They also have not changed employment agreement to reflect remote work. Nothings changed except when the developer’s butts rest.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#135

Post by ozim »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #86
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #44

Counterpoint: For many careers remote work deprives young workers of mentoring, relationship building, and learning by osmosis. This is already being seen at law firms for example. So, enjoy your remote work - and for many professions it won't be an issue - but for some careers watch as your in-person colleagues advance faster, earn more & enjoy greater trust and responsibility.

On the other hand it might encourage companies to do these things "intentionally" instead of just "by osmosis".

Some things you cannot teach by intentionally saying "do X" or writing down "code of conduct".

To know when to talk or shut up in a meeting or read other people emotions to see that someone might be polite but is actually pissed off takes quite a lot of working together and a lot of meetings.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#136

Post by coffeedan »

parkingrift wrote: post #134

I’m loving the companies that are trying to force workers back to the office. I just troll on LI for the announcements and then target their devs. It’s never been easier to recruit. Employers can’t win this but I’m glad so many are trying.

Maybe? I think it will take time to know who the winners and losers are. It might be good for your recruiting numbers right now, but market performance over an extended period will decide winners and losers.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#137

Post by bbarn »

vermooten wrote: post #45

I'm still genuinely uncertain why companies are so desperate to get staff into the office. 'Business people' like HR, sales, marketing LOVE being together in person; Engineers somewhat less so. Given that companies tend to be run by 'business people' then yeah I think I just answered my own question.

I hate these kinds of statements.

Your occupation does not define your personality or your ability to work with others closely. Without someone capable of bringing others together socially, team standards and practices either get dictated by the manager or the loudest voice in the room. The ability to foster collaboration is woefully underappreciated as a skill in our field.

And yeah, I've met plenty of antisocial HR, Sales, and Marketing people.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#138

Post by izacus »

chrisseaton wrote: post #30
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The modern mainstream news is worthless sensationalist click bait nowadays.

News can't work if you want to wait for a peer-reviewed study for everything. It's legitimate for journalists to report what they're hearing less formally than that. And that's how it's always been - it's not a new thing.

Are you seriously unable to comprehend the nuance between "peer reviewed article" and "journalist pulling something our of their arse with zero supporting data"?

Like, what's hard to understand about "there should be at least some general evidence outside personal anecdotes for conclusions about groups of people"?

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#139

Post by shakezula »

incrudible wrote: post #90
gorgoiler wrote: post #39

Some types of tech work well with remote, largely unalignable staff. Some don’t. I’m finding that where I can build small modules, by myself, that allow lots of flexibility to make final integration possible, I’m getting a lot of work done. When I need to collaborate with a bunch of people and get small pieces of code landing in different places before I can start to see results, then I’m finding the remote angry ner…

Instead of structuring your team around the architecture of the software, you architect the software around the structure of your team. It is a corrolary of Conways law. Promote selfishness (call it ownership) and get just get rid of code review. As you may imagine, this approach has fat tail risk, but that is not necessarily a problem in a high failure rate environment.

> just get rid of code review

You’ve lost me there and will never get me back. I can’t abide any workflow that doesn’t put code review as top priority, regardless of remote or in person, sync or async.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#140

Post by bbarn »

DogLover_ wrote: post #69
capableweb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Spotify employees in Stockholm would earn differently than the ones in the US? Doesn't really sound like "continuing to pay New York City-level salaries to workers no matter where they're based" if that's the case. Edit: Here's a source that says they pay the same no matter if you're in the office or at home (basically), but it's limited to countries Spotify agrees you can be in: > Location choices – we will also…

My guess is that they still pay US higher but I have no evidence of it. AirBnB also allows you to work from anywhere but if you look at their job-listing they still show location as San Francisco for pretty much all of the jobs.

Of course. Pay is always set as low as possible to retain the right level of employee. If the market for engineers in the US is higher than Europe (it is) it will pay higher.
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