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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#131
post #4

For context: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott recently attributed all gun crime to mental illness, saying at a press conference that "anybody who shoots somebody else has a mental health problem, period."

He's not wrong.

Yes he is. Cops sometimes have to shoot people. Gun owners occasionally shoot in self defense. They are not mentally ill.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#132
post #40

As a foreigner, I do not see it as productive to seek any explanation or expect any reaction when yet another news story like this comes along. It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live, and it is their perogative to do so.

Way more than half don't want to live like this. We live in a broken system dominated by a minority of states.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#133
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner, I have an impression that americans can buy a gun at 18, but cun buy a cigarette at 21. Maybe I’m wrong, but still... Call me an “old-timer” but I do think you could use better psychological tests before letting them buy a gun.

Its because buying a gun is a civil right. Smoking is not. That said, the 21yo requirement may be unconstitutional as well.

I've noticed your eight comments in this thread to date are fairly declarative but aren't well founded or sourced, simply assertions and often appear to be incorrect as responding comments have shown.

Clearly, you and I both support the second amendment. However, we should recognize when our support of certain associate claims aren't well founded. Bearing arms and being part of a well-regulated militia are American civil rights granted by the Bill of Rights. Purchasing those arms isn't a civil right.[0]

[0] https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/second-a...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take social media activity into account during background checks. Increase the age to purchase to 21. 1 month waiting period. I'm a gun owner btw. I also wonder what interesting things would happen if in order to own a gun you must drill with a militia.

My personal view is that anyone can own a gun but should be required to take mandatory "militia" training courses twice a year (like 8 hours). This alone will probably limit the number of people wanting to go through the process. Another thought is that people could keep their guns in their locally ran armory that they could go and practice whenever they want and checkout guns for hunting purposes. Also no semi-auto…

So anyone who can vote should take 8 hours long courses twice a year, with a deep dive into history and civics, right? Because, let's be honest, if the clueless crowd votes in a chaotic autocrat, the damage will far exceed those few thousand deaths by guns.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#135
As a foreigner I find this subject very complex since the right to bear arms in on the US constitution.

To change or "rewrite" the constitution trying to deal with this subject could dissolve the US.

Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals.

More protection in schools could be a starting point to address these awful events.

I'm still in favor of law abiding citizens having a way to defend themselves. My Dad and Mom were almost killed by a burglar with an illegal gun while they were at home!. A burglar got inside my house while my pregnant wife and me were sleeping. If she were to go to the bathroom or anything else, I couldn't possibly imagine what would happen.

For context, it's practically impossible to buy a gun in my country. I wouldn't recommend anyone to vote for laws restricting any law abiding citizen to defend themselves and their loved ones.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#136
post #49
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a very small number of Americans can't have this discussion. Most Americans (and people living elsewhere) can have it easily and think the solutions are obvious.

The problem is that the people who can't have this discussion also own a bunch of guns...

I can't tell if you're joking, but the problem is not their guns. They're mostly peaceful people who have not demonstrated a willingness to commit mass murder to defend their interpretation of the Second Amendment.

I know we see some violent pro-gun extremism online, but it doesn't represent the vast majority of gun owners.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#137
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a very small number of Americans can't have this discussion. Most Americans (and people living elsewhere) can have it easily and think the solutions are obvious.

> " Only a very small number of Americans can't have this discussion. " It's unclear why people keep claiming this. According to https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own... , in 2020 while rural firearms ownership was ~48%, urban and suburban firearms ownership was 23% and 25% respectively in the US. That's a minority, to be sure, but it's not by any means a "very small" minority.

I disagree with the premise that "people who can't have a discussion about gun rights" == "people who own guns".

In fact, gun owners (like the general population) are heavily in favor of increasing gun control, especially things like closing loopholes in background check laws[1].

The people who won't entertain a discussion about increasing gun control are a minority of extremists who just happen to be a large enough voting bloc to dictate the GOP's position on guns.

1. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-a...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#138

We need gory pictures from the executed kids everywhere. Until we understand the magnitude of the horror. I look at my FB and see proud gun owners cracking jokes and I really cannot comprehend how it is possible.

I understand the feeling, but I don't think it would work. People would get upset and get even angrier at whoever they already think is to blame, and after a while everyone would become desensitized to it.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#139

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

In a country of 330,000,000, people who have shot up schools may be around 330 or 0.0001%. It is impossible to assign any single causality to events that have such low occurrences unless you have billions of examples. (Yes, the rest of the world data can provide counterfactual data, but it is still mathematically impossible because there are 100s of variables at play)

It is possible and airliner crashes show that. They happen even less often and almost every single one had a precisely defined cause that was discovered after rigourus investigation. The reason why we do this despite the events having small chance of occurance, is because the impact is enormous and we give it as much scrutiny as we possibly can to prevent it from happening again. The same level of scrutiny is not happening with school shootings.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#140

India has 4 times the population of US and I've never heard or read about a school shooting or a mass shooting. There is way worse poverty, mental illness, lawlessness, corruption at every level in India. The only difference is easy access to guns. Not sure why it's so difficult for gun worshippers in US to understand this.

What about statistics about rape, violence, thefts, invasions, random-beating-up? If the victims of these crimes had guns(or threat of having a gun), what would the statistics look like?

The security guard with the gun at the school couldn't even stop the shooter in the recent shooting and got killed. Same with the security guard in the Buffalo shooting. Someone with multiple AR-15s is still going to murder your whole family.
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