Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#131

Post by legostormtroopr » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:01 AM UTC

ginger2016 wrote: post #119

ginger2016 wrote: post #5

Haidt wants to censor the speech he doesn’t like; he is pining for the old order. His main talking point is Diversity and Equity is bad. He even suggests diversity is bad. Watch this video from mid point. https://youtu.be/RKRuvKtFvqo

I tried listening to more of his arguments after people thought I am misinterpreting his comments on diversity. What about this podcast?, In this he is wishing America was more like Scandinavia. No issue? https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/jonathan-haidt-why-i-change...

Again, you've link to a 40 minute podcast and are expecting to change minds.

Additionally, lots of people (and lots of people on the left) want to be more like Scandinavia - public health care, social safety nets, strong unions. Is that a problem too?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#132

Post by onesafari » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:03 AM UTC

tempfs wrote: post #97

Everything in this country, in this life, is a competition. One big zero-sum game. It starts in high school. Social status, academics, athletics, and now social media followers and likes. I am very glad that when I was in high school, social media wasn't really a thing yet. I could leave it all at school. Just go home and read, play video games or go outside. Most of my mistakes were limited to the memories of those…

Status games are multiplayer, zero-sum, hierarchical, judged socially. Get grades, applause, titles now — emptiness later. Natural games are single player, positive-sum, internal, judged by nature/markets.

Seek wealth, not money or status. Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. Money is how we transfer time and wealth. Status is your place in the social hierarchy.

Understand that ethical wealth creation is possible. If you secretly despise wealth, it will elude you.

Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by attacking people playing wealth creation games.

(from Naval)

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#133

Post by Gigachad » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:04 AM UTC

silisili wrote: post #108

treespace8 wrote: post #18

Parent of a teen, one anecdote to add. You see what all your friends are doing all the time. Every gathering or event that you where not a part of you see, sometimes in real time. People hate being excluded, and this greatly amplifies this feeling. I'm certain I missed out on a ton of cool stuff as a kid, but at least I didn't have to see it.

Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.

Kind of a shit situation where things like TikTok are quite obviously harmful and yet universally used so you become the odd one out for not using it.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#134

Post by graeme » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:05 AM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #98

paxys wrote: post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

Consider the possibility that this perspective might be less a reflection of reality and more a reflection of the media environment.

A lot of that list is pure fact:

Multiple major recessions —> 2008 was biggest since 1929. Dunno about multiple

a global pandemic —> this happened and is still happening

rising inflation —> objectively true. Though I suspect the oncoming recession will quash it as in 2008

housing and education getting more expensive by the day —> huge house and education price increases in past decade, far outstripping inflation

prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation —> student loan debt more than doubled in last decade

climate that will be unlivable in a few decades —> debateable but CO2 is rising fast and we are already logging effects. Will accelerate within 30 years without geoengineering or carbon zero + sequestering

political extremism becoming the norm —> It definitely increased on both sides

and massive government gridlock that has made fixing any of this impossible —> Age old complaint, but filibusters did increase

Which do you think are just products of the media?

I’m more optimistic than OP but I don’t think the list is wrong

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#135

Post by WalterSear » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:07 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #127

tempfs wrote: post #97

Everything in this country, in this life, is a competition. One big zero-sum game. It starts in high school. Social status, academics, athletics, and now social media followers and likes. I am very glad that when I was in high school, social media wasn't really a thing yet. I could leave it all at school. Just go home and read, play video games or go outside. Most of my mistakes were limited to the memories of those…

> One big zero-sum game. Not relationships, marriage, work, or community. Even business is rarely zero sum, or the economy wouldn't grow. Generally speaking, business is win-win deals.

> Not relationships, marriage, work, or community

I don't understand how you could think any of this.

Relationships? They are absolutely a competition for the young: both platonic and romantic, but especially romantic. Nothing more competitive.

Work? Work is absolutely a competition, for young and old alike.

Community? What else do you think teens are seeking out online?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#136

Post by ativzzz » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:07 AM UTC

onesafari wrote: post #132

tempfs wrote: post #97

Everything in this country, in this life, is a competition. One big zero-sum game. It starts in high school. Social status, academics, athletics, and now social media followers and likes. I am very glad that when I was in high school, social media wasn't really a thing yet. I could leave it all at school. Just go home and read, play video games or go outside. Most of my mistakes were limited to the memories of those…

Status games are multiplayer, zero-sum, hierarchical, judged socially. Get grades, applause, titles now — emptiness later. Natural games are single player, positive-sum, internal, judged by nature/markets. Seek wealth, not money or status. Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. Money is how we transfer time and wealth. Status is your place in the social hierarchy. Understand that ethical wealth creation i…

I don't know what kind of sterile environment you'd have to live in to play mostly "natural games", and certainly any teenager in any social setting (school) is playing a multiplayer game. Hell almost all humans are playing multiplayer games. Fundamentally, we are social creatures, despite what high philosophy may say

you've edited your post a couple of times so this was a reply to your earlier edit about natural/status games

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#137

Post by tristor » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:08 AM UTC

twayt wrote: post #83

Figure 2 that shows the rates of major depression among boys and girls is shocking. 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys have been diagnosed with major depression. I wonder what the distribution is of others who haven't been diagnosed or deal with depression to a lower degree. Something that may be surprising to some people is that this trend isn't limited to boys and girls. From data collected in 2019/2020, 30% of people a…

> This number is skewed heavily towards women too

All of the data I've seen on the mental health crisis in the West seems to indicate that it hits women harder than men. I have yet to see an explanation for why, though.

Does anyone know of any articles that thoroughly cover this gender split in mental health and why this particular issue is more predominantly affecting women?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#138

Post by geranim0 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:08 AM UTC

tempfs wrote: post #97

Everything in this country, in this life, is a competition. One big zero-sum game. It starts in high school. Social status, academics, athletics, and now social media followers and likes. I am very glad that when I was in high school, social media wasn't really a thing yet. I could leave it all at school. Just go home and read, play video games or go outside. Most of my mistakes were limited to the memories of those…

It's a competition if you view it as a competition. Yes, it does take time and effort to shift the way you view things, but totally worth it.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#139

Post by Gigachad » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:11 AM UTC

dpweb wrote: post #84

What bothers me most and even on HN, where you usaully get intelligent discourse, the alarmist pessimism. Everything is falling apart! Just another form of self-indulgence. There must be something compelling about pretending the apocolypse is tomorrow. Yes, there are problems in our social, political, ecomonic systems. They need to be recognized and addressed. Democracy makes that process slow and difficult. But the…

Almost every thread on HN is filled with such weird pessimism. Or such obviously false observations. The famous dropbox criticism is only scratching the surface. Its so predictable you know what the top complaints will be before you even open the page.

There could be a post about some crazy new performance optimization coming to firefox and the top comment will be a link to a 15 year old bug where the right click menu padding for the flags page isn't consistent when viewed on BSD. Concluding the browser is abandonware due to this.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#140

Post by noisy_boy » Thu, May 05, 2022, 5:12 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #133

silisili wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.

Kind of a shit situation where things like TikTok are quite obviously harmful and yet universally used so you become the odd one out for not using it.

Analogous to the whole nerd thing being made fun of until being a nerd itself became a culture. Hopefully social media goes the way of the cigarettes ... harmful, profitable and still used but not cool anymore.