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Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

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Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#131

Post by vorpalhex »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #11

It bears repeating, many people who think they have burnout actually have chronic fatigue (CFS/ME) but don’t know it yet. Repeated burnouts may simply be a relapse and recovery cycle. A number of the genetic predispositions to CFS also tends to have behavioral components (anxiety disorders and ADHD) that include a preference for a career in software. Now with Covid many of those who may never have had CFS are finding…

CFS is a diagnosis by exclusion. It may not be a particular disorder but instead acts as a catch all.

CFS does not have a specific treatment. There are standard courses that are recommended, but there is no consensus on how to treat it. Usually treatment involves treating underlying disorders such as depression.

Burnout is a stress response. Unlike CFS, you should improve with rest and taking time. Note that this doesn't mean you are going to go back to a hundred percent because you take a few days, but seeing improvement on vacation is a good indicator of burnout.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#132

Post by skeeter2020 »

This seems like a pretty weak list to be called a "Toolkit". I think burnout is like another major issue: boredom, and both share the common trait that by the time a manager is aware of it, it is too late to address. Tips like "be positive" and "express gratitude" are table-stakes to being a decent team member; they're not nearly enough for a manager to to proactively address burn-out. Increasing headcount or reducing scope are rarely in the control of a direct manager. Nothing here attempts to address the underlying causes of burnout that include: boring & repetitive work with no slack in the schedule and a persistent expectation of fighting fires and noisy, immediate delivery.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#133

Post by jimmyjazz14 »

I think burnout is the brains mechanism to prevent you from doing non-productive work (or at least what it perceives as non-productive) the problem is most of the work we doing in corporate environments feels pretty non-productive.

Most of my periods of burnout in tech have been due to doing a lot of work without any real perceived payoff, this might include a lot of team meetings where we discuss priorities and estimates ad nauseum or working with tools that constantly fight you. Its like playing a game over and over and never making any progress eventually your brain is smart enough to tell you that you need to avoid playing the game (or going on the same hunt). I don't know how you solve this problem but I think most managers don't even understand burn out well enough to start.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#134

Post by jseban »

citilife wrote: post #92

One thing as a manager I was passionate about was monitoring the team stress. Some team members work better under pressure, others don't and it's a balancing act. For instance, I've had co-workers that need the constant pressure to accomplish their goals and they can go on like that for years. The act of accomplishing something is worth the stress. Personally, I don't really get burned out. I have limitations on hour…

So you tighten the thumbscrews until people start to crack, and then you give them some bread and circuses

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#135

Post by throwaway44432 »

StevenWaterman wrote: post #119
throwawaymaths wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not two different types of burnout... They are one and the same. Pressure and overwork do not per se cause burnout... What causes burnout is if the effort-reward cycle misses (either repeatedly for small efforts, or if you put in a lot of effort and have a categorical miss) Reward could be anything. The feeling of a job well done (easy to miss if the project is a failure, or if management pivots), it could…

That's a really interesting hypothesis, and it would make sense. Is it something that you've come up with, or is there some literature I can read about it?

Great analysis indeed. I have have the same question about literature.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#136

Post by marginalia_nu »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #7

All the "strategies" (really just tips) follow the same pattern of either tunneling on overwork as a cause, treating symptoms or pathos. >Sid and Michelle emphasized that the earlier a manager can identify burnout the better. Honestly, at the point of identification, you're likely too late. Especially for something as insidious as burnout, which can last for years and not show any symptoms before it is beyond the poi…

> So stop putting them under a lot of pressure.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Pressure can be perceived even without expectations. I think especially junior developers have a hard time knowing which deadlines are actually important, and may tend to experience a much larger responsibility for the entire project than anyone expects of them.

In part this may be down to a bad communication style from managers, a good manager shields the team from worrying about clouds on the horizon; but this isn't always the case.

I've had people I've had to sit down and tell that this overtime they're putting in isn't expected of them, nobody asks this of them, it isn't their responsibility but the team got this, it's not worth burning out at age 24 over some sprint deliverable that's like just a cell in a spreadsheet that nobody really cares about.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#137

Post by lvl102 »

ozzythecat wrote: post #122

I’m going to use this post as an opportunity to tell people about Amazon. The company has some of the most incompetent managers, who under pressure, will throw their own people under the bus. By incompetent, I mean “yes” men who tell 10 different people exactly what they want to hear. These are people doing the bare minimum to keep their own jobs, and when things go off rails, they pass the blame to everyone around t…

Sadly, you can say that about nearly all of corporate America especially the big ones.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#138

Post by bogomipz »

StevenWaterman wrote: post #37

I suffered from severe burnout around a year ago, and only now am I starting to feel back to normal. Nothing here would have helped me, and it's pretty clear to me why that is the case. (Paraphrased from literature that I read at the time) There's two kinds of burnout. One is caused by overwork, stress, long hours, not enough breaks, no holidays, not enough headcount, and so on. The kind of things this article talks…

I think your comment is very insightful. I agree with your distinction between the two kinds of burnout. I feel like the second one you mention is often the much worse of the two as least with the first case there's the potential to discuss, joke and possibly commiserate over head count and long hours.

I would be interested in hearing how you went about moving forward form your burnout.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#139

Post by bavila »

thenerdhead wrote: post #20

I believe the most important tool to prevent burnout is slack. Not the app, the word. Slack gives you choice. The choice to work. To have fun. To do nothing. Slack allows you to deal with less bullshit. Less waste, not more production. Less always-on anxiety and avoiding stress completely. These "manager tools" are not to prevent burnout. They are a list of things managers probably should be doing but don't. They sho…

> A simple "thanks" goes much further than you think. Especially those that are genuine and out of the blue. For some reason managers tend to not use this "magic" word.

I used to work in litigation as an attorney before moving to the tech world. Started off as a public defender, which included working with some very challenging people (not just the clients, but also witnesses, sheriffs, prosecutors, judges, etc.). Learned pretty quickly to harness the power of three very powerful magic spells:

• I'm sorry

• Please

• Thank you

When used with sincerity, you can move mountains. I wish more people understood this.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#140

Post by taurath »

ozzythecat wrote: post #122

I’m going to use this post as an opportunity to tell people about Amazon. The company has some of the most incompetent managers, who under pressure, will throw their own people under the bus. By incompetent, I mean “yes” men who tell 10 different people exactly what they want to hear. These are people doing the bare minimum to keep their own jobs, and when things go off rails, they pass the blame to everyone around t…

Quite agree, having had to help ex Amazonians emotionally process their anti empathy training whenever they are hired at companies I’ve worked at. All my friends who’ve stayed at Amazon have gotten cold, distant, and the light behind their eyes is gone. If you see them entering “work mode” you see what is functionally a sociopath - brutal but effective. More have taken long breaks from work to get therapy. Some have left the industry entirely.

I will not say that “it’s not like that for everyone” or “it depends what team you’re on”. The company is made to make you think a certain way.

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