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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#131

Post by d0mine »

GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

Imagine your skin has a different from your neighbors color. Would it be sensible to consider it a disorder? Even if it may happen that it negatively affects your every day life, and it may be maladaptation in the region where you live but it may be a considerable advantage if you had lived on different latitude.

Or consider a game where different character classes exist e.g., Necromancer (can raise an army with no resource, quickly) and Wizard (requires lots of resources, slow to develop though some units are exceptionally strong). Would it make sense to consider being a Wizard to be a disorder in such a game?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#132

Post by GavinMcG »

drewcoo wrote: post #31
GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

That's not a straw man. He's just stating the same thing you are when you say: > disorders require that the deviation amount to a disorder That is medicalizing diversity. Creating "disorders" where no one is bothered by them. This is not uncommon in psychology. In the 1970s, homosexuality was also a "disorder."

No, he isn't: he supposes that "any deviation from the standard" is called a disorder. That's false: we call something a disorder when it disrupts people's lives, not just when there's diversity. "Disorder" only applies when someone is bothered—and addressing the bother isn't "medicalization" any more than cleft palate repair or prescribing eyeglasses.

He seems committed to using the term "disorder" about himself, even though he says he doesn't have one. But it's a problem of his own making: he could stop saying he has ADD and start saying he has an attention deficit.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#133

Post by triggercut »

lghh wrote: post #89
triggercut wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume from the fact they were diagnosed (as they stated) by a professional (hopefully)? As someone who also fights an internal battle with my diagnosis 24/7, comments like this are not helpful and can even be hurtful. Would you ask someone with a hearing aid how they could be sure they were deaf? Or someone wheelchair bound how they could be sure they can't just walk if they try hard enough? The world of wor…

Yes, I was diagnosed by two professionals independently of each others because I was so unsure of the first diagnosis. Comments like these are hurtful. I ask myself the question the commenter asked me every single day. I just try to approach them with care and the assumption they are coming from a good place. I know that isn't always the case, but it's the best I can do. Also, it's wild that I already have a strategy…

> Comments like these are hurtful. I ask myself the question the commenter asked me every single day. I just try to approach them with care and the assumption they are coming from a good place. I know that isn't always the case, but it's the best I can do.

I try to as well, I had to rewrite that comment several times to be bit more generous but had to leave it where it was. It's hard - Ironically it comes from a place of wishing the world would be more generous to you. Beyond regular therapy I don't talk openly about this, both for this reason, and as I had been struggling with, and treated, for depression for over 20 years (which it now turns out is exacerbated or even caused by the untreated ADHD).

I've spent an incredible amount of effort and energy actively hiding this fact and any consequences from employers, teachers and loved ones out of fear of what it would mean for my already difficult to maintain status quo. I've seen what the stigma of mental health can do to ones career and future opportunities (unless of course you are an active and visual advocate, campaigner as well as your normal role).

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#134

Post by hirvi74 »

atian wrote: post #110
hirvi74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. In my experience, I noticed most the negative impacts caused by the disorder were actually due to how I was treated by others for the negative impact my disorder caused in their lives (real or perceived).

> The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.

> causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition

According to other people.

What if I think my behavior or emotions are appropriate or justified? The people that are not like me get to tell me how I should be? Seems kind of sick to me. What about the opposite? Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Regardless, they are definitely accepted easier (assuming they have no other divergent issues causing them to not fit the mold).

To me, it seems like ADHD is basically a diagnosis in which one lacks the proper neurological components of being a good little worker-drone in a capitalistic machine.

Can't focus? Can't sit still for 8 hours straight? Take longer to complete tasks? That's no good. Take these pills, shut up, sit still, and produce! Who cares about the longterm effects of taking amphetamines everyday. It's not /their/ problem, it's /my problem/. I mean, that is all us dairy cows are good for right? And what good is a dairy cow that produces no milk?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#135

Post by orangepurple »

lghh wrote: post #111
orangepurple wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay extra attention to your gums

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's a bit vague. I had dry mouth for a day or so, but got over it pretty quick. I'm a regular brusher and flosser, for what it's worth.

Capillary vasoconstriction

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#136

Post by hervature »

triggercut wrote: post #84
symlinkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

I would assume from the fact they were diagnosed (as they stated) by a professional (hopefully)? As someone who also fights an internal battle with my diagnosis 24/7, comments like this are not helpful and can even be hurtful. Would you ask someone with a hearing aid how they could be sure they were deaf? Or someone wheelchair bound how they could be sure they can't just walk if they try hard enough? The world of wor…

To play devil’s advocate, wearing hearing aids would suck because you are at the whim of whatever algorithm on the aid. Furthermore, they are adjusted to your hearing range. This is how they know your hearing is gone. Phones tend to be problematic especially in ambient environments. It isn’t like wearing earbuds more like noise canceling with fairly low pass through frequency. You’d be hard pressed to find people who would prefer this over normal hearing. I assume most people would also prefer to walk. Adderall is the exact opposite. Each pill is worth $20 at any university during cram time. That tells you it is desirable by all.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#137

Post by chrischen »

Pulcinella wrote: post #77
chrischen wrote: post #44

A lot of the benefits of neuro-diversity are seen at the population level. The bearers of these traits are “taking one for the team” so to speak because they are preserving a genetic trait potentially useful for the future but may be painful in the present. There’s going to be a wide range of suffering though, from manageable ADHD to crippling depression. Society should simply support these people and mitigate near t…

I would rather not “take one for the team” especially if “the team” has to be dragged kicking and screaming into providing any support/“compensation” for the “service” I am providing. Also “preserving genetic traits that are potentially useful in the future” is way to close to eugenics for my comfort.

I’m not saying they should take one for the team. I’m saying we should treat them as disorders to mitigate the near term disadvantages so they can survive and pass on their genes.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#138

Post by gibquaaludes »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

Do you know how a patient would get funneled to someone like you with expertise on this matter?

My experience with GPs is that they do not understand those issues and do not know how to direct to someone who does. It's not like a physical ailment where they know with a fair degree of certainty what the next avenue is.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#139

Post by jrapdx3 »

lghh wrote: post #50
jrapdx3 wrote: post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

I am 30. I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago and I started treatment (adderall and lifestyle changes). Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it. Once I began treatment, the change was almost overnight. I know I'm just one data point in a sea of data points, but I really just want to add that I'm on the other end of the parent comment and getting diagnosed, other than my marria…

> "Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it."

That corresponds to what many ADHD adults have experienced. Based on what I've observed among ADHD patients, early response to treatment is a reason for optimism. Chances are ongoing treatment will support continued improvement for months if not years. And not just the patient but also the person's family and beyond. Differences in outcomes are decidedly non-trivial.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#140

Post by photochemsyn »

I don't really trust mental health diagnoses, but I'll admit to being heavily biased by a background in molecular biology, microbiology and biochemistry. Some diseases are clearly and unambiguously diagnosable - say you have drug-resistant TB, we can do a PCR test and detect the exact strain of TB you are suffering from. Even in some other diseases where there is no blood test and the diagnosis is clinical, like Parkinson's, the criteria seem so much clearer than anything I've heard about ADHD / ADD etc. For example:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...

While I can believe the condition does exist (schizophrenia may be similarly difficult to accurately diagnose, but it surely exists), it really seems to be overdiagnosed in children, and in adults, I imagine amphetamine addiction plays a big role in continued diagnoses. It's rather odd to read articles about it that make no mention of this factor.

https://www.verywellmind.com/amphetamine-high-21916

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