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Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

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Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#131

Post by em-bee »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #16
goodpoint wrote: post #10

...and yet taxation does not reflect environmental at all. In some countries cow milk is even subsidized. Edit: cow milk is actually less healthy than alternatives and there is no reason to encourage it.

> In some countries cow milk is even subsidized Because poor people consume it. Dairy products are also a replacement for meat if you're poor enough.

my understanding about this is that milk production is not subsidized so that poor people can afford it, but so that farmers can afford to continue producing it. in some places milk production is not profitable and farmers would go out of business without government support.

the price they get paid for their milk does not depend on what the consumers would be willing to pay, but on the large milk production companies who buy all their milk and dictate what they are willing to pay, and without subsidies they would simply buy their milk elsewhere.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#132

Post by micromacrofoot »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #120
micromacrofoot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was responding to a post that also did not show evidence. > The height difference for a child aged 3 y consuming 3 cups noncow milk/d relative to 3 cups cow milk/d was 1.5 cm (95% CI: 0.8, 2.0 cm). We're talking about 1.5cm here. I guess if you're training your kid to be an olympic athlete then stick to cow's milk, but they'll be fine in the general sense with an similarly nutritious alternative. Lactose-intolerant…

I'm not gonna purposely stunt my child's growth over the selection of drink product at the grocery store. 1.5cm at 3yo is 3-5% of the kids total growth since born and probably more significant if you subtract 1 year of breastfeeding. That would be 1.5cm within 2 years of growth.

Your grandkids may very well experience climate-related famine, but hopefully they'll find solace in their parents being a few cm taller than the lactose intolerant.

This is a little bit of a ridiculous way to approach nutrition. My point is that very few people actually need cow's milk to the extent that the dairy industry would lead you to believe. A few cm does not negate that. Compared to most of human history we live in a time of nutritional abundance.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#133

Post by falcolas »

tetris11 wrote: post #42
Reason077 wrote: post #22

I'm not vegan or anything, but I've found oat milk not only tastes great on cereal etc, but it also keeps fresh for much longer in the fridge. I've pretty much given up buying cow's milk now days, unless I have a specific recipe or something that calls for it. Cheese, on the other hand, I can't see myself giving up any time soon!

It makes superior hot chocolate as it doesn't burn as it boils compared to regular milk

Why are you boiling the milk?

Get the milk hot - hot enough to melt the chocolate and sugar. Don't boil it.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#134

Post by Mikeb85 »

em-bee wrote: post #131
Mikeb85 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some countries cow milk is even subsidized Because poor people consume it. Dairy products are also a replacement for meat if you're poor enough.

my understanding about this is that milk production is not subsidized so that poor people can afford it, but so that farmers can afford to continue producing it. in some places milk production is not profitable and farmers would go out of business without government support. the price they get paid for their milk does not depend on what the consumers would be willing to pay, but on the large milk production companies…

> milk production is not subsidized so that poor people can afford it, but so that farmers can afford to continue producing it.

Yes, because poor people can't afford to pay the prices required to sustain enough production. And because dairy is a staple, especially in rough times, it's in governments' interest to maintain production.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#135

Post by Tronno »

Nutritionally and chemically, oat and cow milk are completely different. Cow milk has 4x more protein, 2x more fat, and 1/2 the carbs. Oat milk contains 50% more sugar. It also doesn't produce the same results when used in, for example, baking.

I appreciate the sentiment, but getting people to switch seems as futile as converting a steak lover to strict veganism.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#136

Post by em-bee »

one interesting argument that i read was that without meat and dairy production we would not have enough natural fertilizer and we would have to resort to chemical fertilizers instead. i haven't been able to verify this, but if true then organic vegan food production may not be possible without livestock. (unless we change how human waste is being collected)

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#137

Post by wbsss4412 »

bipson wrote: post #122
wbsss4412 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “soy can mess with hormones” meme comes from the fact that soy contains weak estrogen like compounds, and the internet has blown up about it (particularly in health and fitness circles where there’s a good deal of concern about maintaining one’s manliness). What gets left out is the fact that phytoestrogens are ubiquitous, found in many plant foods. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen?wprov=sfti1

All our pediatricians strongly advised foregoing soy based alternatives (son had a milk-protein allergy), at least until he is 2, better even longer. The argument from the less concerned was something along: Better safe then sorry, no one can say what larger amounts of estrogen will do to a boy well below 1.

Doctors are inherently risk averse, all that means is “we don’t know, and there’s not much downside to not doing it, so we might as well advise against”.

Saying “no one can say” means they literally have no idea. It’s not all that different than the statement “no one can say that 5G doesn’t cause cancer”.

Note that phytoestrogens are categorically not human estrogen, they are simply compounds that mimic some of estrogen’s properties.

Also of note: breast milk contains estrogen.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#138

Post by Bancakes »

candiddevmike wrote: post #47
denimnerd42 wrote: post #32

Milk alternatives don't have any benefits in children. Milk drinking in children is thought to induce growth. You can't overdo it though as it interferes with iron absorption. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63647-8 see the references height difference found: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/106/2/597/4557638 may be related to IGF-1: https://www.nature.com/articles/1601948

Do we need big kids? Milk has a ton of calories and could be contributing to childhood obesity: https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/03/16/how-milk-may-contribut...

You can drink a gallon of milk a day if it fits your TDEE.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#140

Post by gmuslera »

Meanwhile 100 million oil barrels are extracted (each producing 0.5/0.7 ton of CO2 equivalent), 23 millions of tons of coal, and 365 thousand million of cubic feet of natural gas are consumed. All those numbers each day, and without counting leaks.

And we are talking of fossil fuels, carbon that wasn't in the ecosystem for maybe many millions of years, compared with the relatively short lived and recycled methane that emits living things. There is a big elephant in the room that nobody dare to talk about.

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