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Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

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Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#131

Post by ilammy »

hans1729 wrote: post #118
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

> Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? Look, if I had enough money around, I'd maybe consider the gamble. But I don't want to buy property to sell it later, I just want to li…

> I'm not interested in placing bets on my salary

That's exactly what you already do if you're renting: you're betting that you will be able to work and earn enough salary to afford the rent, with your adjusted expenses. That's "pfft easy" when you're in 20's, easy in your 30's, okay in your 40's (kids need money, yo), doable in your 50's, oh shit when you're 52 because surprise! economic downturn / medical emergency / anything else that might happen. And now you don't have a place to live in and spending your retirement money to rent one, or take a dip in your quality of life.

If you're not paying for your mortgage, you're likely paying for one of your landlord.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#133

Post by yurishimo »

cascom wrote: post #107
alimov wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe one more interesting detail worth noting: c) private equity firms are buying up insane amounts of real estate, being able to outbid regular home buyers and (don’t quote me on this b/c I’m not 100% sure) pay cash for the properties they buy.

There have been a lot of headlines about this, and in the handful of markets I’m sure this has a price effect, but in the us market as a whole, they are $10b-$100b? of a ~25T market, it just doesn’t move the needle

It doesn’t need to be spread out to have an effect. If the investments are concentrated in cities, that raises the price of housing in the surrounding areas as there is more demand for rural properties from city residents trying to escape the higher prices.

Anecdotally, I’m seeing crazy numbers for “average” houses in the small towns surrounding the DFW metroplex. Hell, the house my parents built in 2006 for $140k is now selling for $350k. 1200 sqft mass produced trac home.

But it’s an hour drive to downtown Dallas (less if no traffic) so plenty of people are commuting but making city salaries. It’s the same in every city across America.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#134

Post by streblo »

JetAlone wrote: post #90

Buying a home mortgage is signing yourself over to a lifetime of servitude and uncertainty if you lose your income stream. Buy a property out of pocket to live in and make the most of a DIY life at a fraction of the cost and an odd stress differential, or just keep renting and be agile enough to roll with the punches.

Most people don't do the math and realize that over a long enough time horizon a 30 year fixed mortgage will cost you less than purchasing the home outright. This assumes you take the money you would have sunk into the home and instead invest it at a higher rate of return, which is an option available to most home owners.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#135

Post by cascom »

oliwarner wrote: post #55
cammikebrown wrote: post #2

Seems like the bubble burst is going to be more sudden than we thought. 30 year mortgages are suddenly at nearly 5.5-6%, listings are sitting on the market for longer, and multiple cities are cracking down on Airbnb.

Whole-term-fixed rates are pretty uncommon in Europe. Fixes of 2, 5 sometimes 10 years are products most providers offer, but as the term increases, the rate shoots up, to offset rate uncertainty. My question is: why would you fix for 30yr when you know you're paying multiple points to offset market uncertainty? Remortgaging every couple of years takes a bit of time, and shopping around, but is much cheaper.

“Remortgaging every couple of years takes a bit of time, and shopping around, but is much cheaper”

This is an incorrect statement. It is true only if short term interest rates (on average) remain flat or decrease over the next 30 years.

Put another way, by getting a fixed rate loan you are paying for insurance against rising interest rates (+inflation), you’re saying it’s ALWAYS cheaper not to buy insurance - but the honest answer thsts probably been true recently, but not always historically, and may not be true in the future.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#136

Post by agent008t »

itsoktocry wrote: post #121
hans1729 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not miss those people, but my wording was loaded and so the point got lost in translation. I implicitly captured them under b) "[...] it's dumb to buy estates where the price is set by people and institutions that have n times your own income/net worth" , where dumb is a loaded term for your > "to the point where it no longer seems rational" . > But crucially, the presence of this group of people arguably turns…

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me, it just seems like a terrible move. Buying a house isn't for everyone, sure. But this is a serious misunderstanding of what "going into debt" is. You're not buying a TV you'll throw out in 5 years, you're buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value over 100+ years that you can get incredible leverage on. In the US and Canada, at least, buyi…

>buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value

Correction - over a time period of decreasing interest rates. Housing, on its own, is a depreciating asset. It is a consumable like a TV. It deteriorates with time.

"Housing always goes up", without an understanding of why it has been going up, can be a dangerous belief and could be one of the reasons why housing at the moment is so expensive relative to rents.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#137

Post by celticninja »

lmt55 wrote: post #109
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

I own a house in London. Its total value increase since I bought it 5 years ago is much less than my salary.

You bought near the peak of the market then. Definitely been some downward pressure on prices since covid as people sold up in London, took that premium price and moved to larger properties elsewhere. Not saying it was a bad investment, just that the return will take longer than it has in the past.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#138

Post by milkshakes »

agent008t wrote: post #136
itsoktocry wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me, it just seems like a terrible move. Buying a house isn't for everyone, sure. But this is a serious misunderstanding of what "going into debt" is. You're not buying a TV you'll throw out in 5 years, you're buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value over 100+ years that you can get incredible leverage on. In the US and Canada, at least, buyi…

>buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value Correction - over a time period of decreasing interest rates. Housing, on its own, is a depreciating asset. It is a consumable like a TV. It deteriorates with time. "Housing always goes up", without an understanding of why it has been going up, can be a dangerous belief and could be one of the reasons why housing at the moment is so expensive relative…

housing might depreciate, but the same is not generally true for the real estate it sits on

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#139

Post by Balero »

baisq wrote: post #48
woodruffw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about other places, but Airbnb has been a mixed bag for NYC: I’ve seen it used to keep housing stock off the market, to dodge the obligations associated with keeping a property livable, and to essentially run entire illegal hotel businesses without attracting regulatory (including safety) scrutiny.

Quoted post unavailable.

So it's ok if someone moves next to you, plays music all hours, leaves rubbish everywhere, and are generally annoying to live next to. And then the next week a whole new group of people move in forgetting any requests you made, but act the same way because they are specifically there for a fun weekend.

Also this stops you getting to know your neighbors and form a community and friends that live around you. Any improvements you make to the local area and street have the owner uninterested or pushing back because they do not want to invest in the area.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#140

Post by taf2 »

cammikebrown wrote: post #2

Seems like the bubble burst is going to be more sudden than we thought. 30 year mortgages are suddenly at nearly 5.5-6%, listings are sitting on the market for longer, and multiple cities are cracking down on Airbnb.

It seems like interest rates need to get to maybe 9% to bring down inflation… see: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/recession-of-19...
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