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Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

sciencenorway.no

131–140 of 207 posts

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#131

Betteridge's law applies. It's well understood that hominids experienced tooth decay throughout their evolution. Causes and contributors and rates over time may be up for debate, but the evidentially confirmed fact that our ancestors got cavities is settled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_decay#History

It's also well understood that our sugar intake is probably 10x what it was before sugar was cheap and readily available and our cavity rate (at least if you aren't brushing) has increased proportionally. I don't think anyone really believes that cavemen never had cavities, just that it was much less common.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they had a life expectancy of like 20 years This just meant that a LOT of kids died, not that most adults didn't live very long.

That is something apparently so obvious, but I was pretty surprised when I first read it. Honestly grew up thinking everyone died at 30 in the past.

Yeah same, but if you made it to 18 your chances of making it to 50 or 60 were pretty good compared when you just popped outta ya mother.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is something apparently so obvious, but I was pretty surprised when I first read it. Honestly grew up thinking everyone died at 30 in the past.

The other weird thing is how skewed it was by sex. Men might have a life expectancy of 50 while for women it was 30.

Obviously child birth was risky but so was being a man running around hunting and fighting other men, I bet the chances were about the same. Neither of us have any sources though I'm willing to bet.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#134
The Vipeholm experiments were a series of human experiments where patients of Vipeholm Hospital for the intellectually disabled in Lund, Sweden, were fed large amounts of sweets to provoke dental caries (1945–1955). The experiments were sponsored both by the sugar industry and the dentist community, in an effort to determine whether carbohydrates affected the formation of cavities.

Main building of Vipeholm hospital, now a secondary school The experiments provided extensive knowledge about dental health and resulted in enough empirical data to link the intake of sugar to dental caries.[1] However, today they are considered to have violated the principles of medical ethics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipeholm_experiments#:~:text....

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#135
post #7

So apparently some think cavities (caries) are contagious via mouth fluid exchange in kissing... if so, then perhaps an ancestor became an unwitting host through some unknown mechanics. Perhaps poorly cooked jowls of some sort.

You have a source for that? It's my understanding that it is -very- hard to change another human's oral biome, the bacteria that are currently there have a huge advantage of out surviving foreign bacteria.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#136
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either the first dentist thought you had a cavity when you had none, or the second one missed it. One of them was just wrong.

Or he had a boat payment due. Seriously though... some dentists will fill any tiny crevice, others wait until there's more clearly a cavity. I'm not sure why the difference.

Yes I had a dentist who told me all of a sudden "you need 3 crowns" and I was like "bwah?" . Just 6 months before I was notified he was happy I hadn't had a cavity the 6 years I'd been seeing him. Naturally I went to another dentist who told me my teeth were fine and to not go back to the other dentist for anything let alone crowns but he said that was just his opinion as he didn't know the dentist personally. So I switched over to him. He took the time to point out on xrays from people who had decay bad enough to get crowns and that my teeth were nothing like those.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I would assume that prehistoric times required "perfect" teeth (and even overall geometry and jaw structure). You need a high quality grinding / cutting tool to rip meat easily.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is absolute fiction presented as facts. If HN had a way to killfile a user this user would be first on my list. This type of misinformation has no place on HN.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#138

Weston A Price is really the go-to for the early research in nutrition and dentistry. His book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration was making the rounds back when Nourishing Traditions became popular. Price, conclusively in my mind, showed that the moment the modern western was introduced into cultures who ate traditional foods, the next generation had terrible teeth, jaws that were too small for all their teeth, etc…

One doesn't have to ditch all "western food". Just being sensible with it is good enough:

- ditch plant fat for animal fat

- avoid excessive sugar

- eat real food (no fake milk, meat etc.)

- stop eating vegetables, specially raw vegetables

Food is one of those things I take an ultra conservative stance on. The food industry has made eating literal poison (plant seeds, plant oils, spinach, brussel sprouts etc.) seem healthy with corrupt research and marketing.

You can't just take a food ingredient from one culture, throw away the indegenous preparation techniques and eat it completely different way and expect it to work. Take spinach for example. It comes from ancient Persia where it was added to a meat stew... you can't eat that raw. Spinach has high oxalate content... which gets reduced when you cook it for a long time. The remaining oxalate binds with high calcium in the meat stew and the resulting dish has no oxalate content at all.

Oxalates are one of the anti-nutrients, which are phytotoxins that plants use to avoid being eaten... Anti-nutrients in particular attack animals by affecting essential nutrient absorption. Indegenous preparation, which has evolved with the cultures, has ways to manage these toxins or counter them with some other ingredient which makes it edible. You can't do away with those preparation techniques.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#139

Weston A Price is really the go-to for the early research in nutrition and dentistry. His book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration was making the rounds back when Nourishing Traditions became popular. Price, conclusively in my mind, showed that the moment the modern western was introduced into cultures who ate traditional foods, the next generation had terrible teeth, jaws that were too small for all their teeth, etc…

One doesn't have to ditch all "western food". Just being sensible with it is good enough: - ditch plant fat for animal fat - avoid excessive sugar - eat real food (no fake milk, meat etc.) - stop eating vegetables, specially raw vegetables Food is one of those things I take an ultra conservative stance on. The food industry has made eating literal poison (plant seeds, plant oils, spinach, brussel sprouts etc.) seem h…

Stop eating vegetables? Tbf i can't figure out whether you're trolling or not.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the same boat. I’ve eaten a lot of junk in my life (standard North American trash diet), and have never had a cavity or any serious dental issue in my life. I also get a cleaning every 6 months at the dentist. I’d be shocked if the likelihood of developing a cavity didn’t have a large genetic component.

My guess is that it's mainly the composition of your mouth's microbiome. Some bacteria really like creating acid that eats away at enamel. Some don't. Whichever happens to have a foothold in your mouth (which probably has a very inherited component) is probably the determining factor in tooth decay.

I'm 36, and I've had 32 cavities filled in my lifetime. I can't stand the procedure every time, and it's been heartbreaking for me not to be able to pinpoint why I've had so many cavities. I'm vegetarian, and I don't drink soda or alcohol. I brush regularly but should probably floss more. I do drink a lot of coffee and a lot of water. I completely avoid any candy and processed sugar (except for the occasional bit of something sweet in a restaurant dessert once or twice a year). I also eat a lot of acidic fruits and vegetables like tomatoes, lemons, limes, and pineapples.

Most were in my early teens (I had eight filled at once one time) so I was convinced it was the dentist racketeering and my parents wouldn't let me out of getting them filled. I should note my parents have a similar diet and a similar amount of major dental work. The handful of cavities I've had in adulthood have been major blows to my mental health.

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