‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#131

Post by makecheck » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 6:50 AM UTC

There are lots of variants of this kind of unnecessary “friction” and I wish that legislation would be able to ban all of these awful behaviors instead of just specific examples of them.

For example, my cable company peppers its web site with ways to “upgrade” your plan easily online. Great, guess what’s missing: an easy way to downgrade anything, e.g. to fewer channels or slower Internet. Obviously they do this for exactly the same reason as the call-us-to-cancel crap but it is just different enough that they could probably keep doing it and still be in compliance with a poorly-written law.

And on the off chance something actually requires talking to a human, it is well past time to end this wait-hours-on-hold crap. Why can’t I log into my profile on the company web site, type in my phone number, describe my issue and then say CALL ME whenever the hell you manage to find an employee who is free to discuss? Furthermore, such calls could be punctuated with texts, e.g. “thank you for contacting us, please expect a call in about 10 minutes” or whatever. That stuff would have been straightforward to implement 10 years ago, much less now.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#132

Post by UweSchmidt » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 6:53 AM UTC

wrycoder wrote: post #104

Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the pandemic, I built a home gym in a spare space at home for a couple hundred dollars. I'm never paying for a gym again.

Cost me $1000 for a rack and weights, but I’ve already saved it back in gym fees.

Same.

Also better music, relaxed dress code and light chores in between sets.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#133

Post by kube-system » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 6:57 AM UTC

datadata wrote: post #52

bradly wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATT Wireless currently offers online cancellations only if you are in New York. These laws help.

The fact that you only get this if you are a resident of a single state is part of my point. The law is good, but having each state exert its own rules is a lot of regulatory friction.

Once a few do it, it’ll be more likely:

1. that it may be cost effective just to do everywhere

2. that federal legislators will take note that it is popular

A lot of new laws in the US gain popularity at the state level before becoming national law.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#134

Post by pishpash » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:00 AM UTC

datadata wrote: post #40

sk5t wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies will terminate business in Pennsylvania It's a fairly populous state at over 4% of the US total, I can't imagine national companies nixing PA.

I think ignoring it is more likely. Imagine instead every jurisdiction enacting similar unique laws. You'd have ~25 things to comply with.

More work for lawyers and not a problem: cost of doing business that will be passed on to you.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#135

Post by pishpash » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #74

datadata wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pennsylvania is less than 4% of the US population. That's a really small piece and it wouldn't be sustainable if every jurisdiction that small enacted different rules

The federal government is too dysfunctional to pass this sort of obvious legislation. They protected their video rental records within a year after Bork was smeared. Dark financial patterns? That's just too hard to do.

If the federal legislature is not elected on a platform having to do with quality-of-life issues then obviously they will not work on that or be held accountable to it.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#136

Post by notimetorelax » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:03 AM UTC

hahnchen wrote: post #94

I usually just block them from the credit card if there are too many hoops to cancel

I wouldn’t advise it. Did this once, ended up paying for an extra year of subscription when they came to collect.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#137

Post by TylerE » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:07 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #129

johnqian wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't ring true to me; most people at the gyms I've been to don't talk to anyone. I think most people actually want the equipment, mainly the squat rack, bench press, and treadmills. I personally love bodyweight exercises but I still feel I'm missing something without heavyweight squats and deadlifts.

> treadmills Just go out for a jog. Fresh air is far better for you anyway than stinky gym air.

Tell that to my allergies.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#138

Post by kube-system » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:07 AM UTC

datadata wrote: post #37

kijin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of Pennsylvania governs a much larger population than just a bunch of local jurisdictions acting in unison. Unless you mean entire countries by "local jurisdictions."

Pennsylvania is less than 4% of the US population. That's a really small piece and it wouldn't be sustainable if every jurisdiction that small enacted different rules

PA is also the 5th most populous state. 90% of US states are smaller in population.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#139

Post by kube-system » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:11 AM UTC

kllvql wrote: post #62

datadata wrote: post #12

The effect of this bill is probably that it will either never be enforced or companies will terminate business in Pennsylvania, at least until more jurisdictions adopt compatible rules. At best companies would only offer these rights for Pennsylvania residents. Local legislation seems incompatible with the economies of scale of internet commerce. I wish that rather than creating laws like this that only govern a tiny…

I find it fascinating that there are more than 11,000 tax jurisdictions in the USA[0]. I think the comparison is interesting, as I'm sure many of these are ignored by many online retailers. It seems like there are some efforts at standardizing Sales Tax approaches across the country. Similar efforts could be interesting for consumer protections. [0] https://taxfoundation.org/state-sales-tax-jurisdictions-in-t...

That’s 11,000 jurisdictions just for sales tax. There are many other jurisdictions not listed there that impose other types of taxes.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#140

Post by eastbound » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:15 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #123

QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

Health clubs rely on 90% of their members never showing up. If they all cancelled, there'd be no more health clubs.

Or they would be more expensive. Or the same price and dividends lower. Or they would see a price per session, or a price per session tier (0-2 sessions per month, 3-5, then 5-15, then 15+).