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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

stephenfollows.com

131–140 of 421 posts

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#131
I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar.

People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything.

Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50 or so jokes endlessly recycled, with people desperately trying to be clever, but not too clever, to hit that sweet spot of mediocrity that gains piles of "updoots".

I don't know if its always been this way and I'm just more annoyed with it lately.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#132

Were they ever in sync? I've always seen critics as a "negative recommendation" -- if a critic recommends a movie, it's usually bad and vice versa (and like all rules there notable exceptions like Thor Ragnarok, which both critics and normal people loved). And this is true not just in movies but books as well. Critics in both domains love the "ooh lala, fancy pancy hard to understand arty farty" book/movie that doesn…

>Critics have always recommended movies that wouldn't appeal to the working Joe , in a sort of condescending manner.

Finding a critic that’s in line with your taste is like finding a doctor that works for you.

It’s sometimes about understanding goes the critic rates films too. They may be the sort that very rarely gives the top score. So 2.5/5 is actually quite watchable.

My favourites were Margaret and David At The Movies. They both had their vices and combined they matched my tastes. I could often predict their ratings.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#133
post #123

Just from a review reader perspective: I don't want critic scores to necessarily go hand in hand with audience scores. I have no idea what a given audience member wants. Random user reviews might rave that "Fast and Furious" speaks to the truth of the human condition, but I'm kinda skeptical and don't really know what that means coming from their perspective ... maybe question that person's life / film viewing experi…

This is the whole point of reviews I feel - you get to know a reviewer and you can use their review to decide if you want to see it. They may absolutely hate the movie, but the way they hate it makes you know you'll enjoy it. "Review aggregators" have killed much of that I feel.

I assume there's also been a fairly dramatic falloff in professional reviewers given the state of newspapers. Not that people writing reviews as a hobby or as a twenty-something working for pennies for the "exposure" can't do a good job. But you're probably going to get a lot less consistency if nothing else.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#134
post #123

Just from a review reader perspective: I don't want critic scores to necessarily go hand in hand with audience scores. I have no idea what a given audience member wants. Random user reviews might rave that "Fast and Furious" speaks to the truth of the human condition, but I'm kinda skeptical and don't really know what that means coming from their perspective ... maybe question that person's life / film viewing experi…

A review's not just a review, and that's that: a review has an angle; a philosophy; a purpose.

Is the film good art? Does it approach the sublime? Does it achieve what seems to have been its goals? Will it probably please most viewers? Separately, and maybe very differently, will it probably please its intended audience? Does it seem to have an intended audience, in that you can imagine any group of people it might be intended to appeal to (seems funny, but some films are bad in ways that make it hard to even discern what this might be)? Is the craft itself particularly skillful?

A good reviewer will make it pretty clear—if not in the piece itself, elsewhere that's accessible—which of these is playing into whatever final, concise rating they give, or to the overall tone of the review, and it can be totally valid to base a review in just some of these criteria—in fact, it can be hard to cover all of them in one piece without creating an unreadable, confusing mess, and then someone's still going to demand some boiled-down star rating or whatever at the end, which could mean any number of things and is nearly worthless without context.

There are whole books and courses about how reviews and criticism work, including those intended for a wide non-academic audience, what their purpose is, how to approach them, how to structure them, et c.

Ebert is a great example of a reviewer who largely tried to meet films on their own terms, with the result that, if a movie looked like something you might like, and Ebert gave it even 2 stars, you'd probably like it well enough. If it wasn't normally something you'd like or didn't immediately look appealing... well, you better read the review, even if he gave it 3 stars. That made him an excellent reviewer for a broad audience, but it doesn't mean his approach was the only, or most correct, one (not to downplay how good he was).

[EDIT] Haha, all of which is to convey that I agree with you, and expect and want very different things from a professional reviewer vs. audience reviewers.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#135

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them. My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement… Any movie that does well wit…

What sorts of films don't lecture?

>What sorts of films don't lecture?

the kind that confirm my existing ideology.

i don't know if you've noticed, but people who do things that i understand are totally normal, and people who are different from me have dumb ideas. it's annoying when they talk.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#136
post #123

Just from a review reader perspective: I don't want critic scores to necessarily go hand in hand with audience scores. I have no idea what a given audience member wants. Random user reviews might rave that "Fast and Furious" speaks to the truth of the human condition, but I'm kinda skeptical and don't really know what that means coming from their perspective ... maybe question that person's life / film viewing experi…

Ebert was one of the last real effigies of good reviewing. The folks who took over after he died haven't really done his name justice.

That said, I think "reviewing" took on much more than what Roger Ebert stood for. I don't think he saw himself as a gatekeeper of quality as much as someone who could put the summary of the experience of watching a movie in text quite succinctly. Nowadays with things like rotten tomatoes, it literally is a rating, and it's definitional gatekeeping.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#137
post #107
post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

I wouldn't consider either of these to be the "correct" solution. You don't need to posit anything at all about how film criticism works. Occam's Razor suggests (ROT13): Vg'f whfg erterffvba gb gur zrna pbzovarq jvgu erfgevpgvba bs enatr. Vs lbh unir gjb pbeeryngrq inevnoyrf K naq L, naq lbh cvpx gur zvavzhz A fnzcyrf sebz K, cebonoyl gur pbeerfcbaqvat A fnzcyrf sebz L jvyy unir uvture crepragvyr enax. Lbh pna pbasve…

Off topic question: Is there anyone here who reads raw ROT13?

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#138
post #2

I've done this analysis for games. My theory was that the correlation was falling because the ratings of old games were dominated by players playing old games now and then rating them, and they were more likely to play games for which there is already a consensus that they are good (old bad games are mostly just forgotten). Whereas for current games the games being played are more random.

also consider the fact that you might have a 40 year old reviewing videogames when the target audience is like 4 years old. my kid and the typical video game reviewer probably have different opinions about the latest paw patrol game.

I sometimes hear this, but I disagree.

If you're 40 years old, you need to be able to consume any kind of media and then place yourself into the mindset of a younger person and judge it from that mindset - because you used to be that younger person.

Truly exceptional media is good enough to transcend the age barrier and is enjoyable for everyone, e.g., The Incredibles is enjoyable for young kids because it's a cartoon and it's flashy and exciting, it's enjoyable for young boys who want to be the "best" at a sport, it's enjoyable for girls transitioning to puberty because of Violet's storyline, it's enjoyable for men who have lost some of their steam and can relate to Mr. Incredible, and it's enjoyable for women because of the struggles Elastigirl has as a mother and a homemaker. Even Syndrome is shown as a sympathetic villain who is evil not because he is a bad person, but because he was dismissed and ignored by his idol. There are plenty of people who can relate to that.

Ghostbusters (1984) is another expertly crafted movie that is fun for kids, but well-written enough to be incredibly enjoyable for adults.

When my young cousins or my nephew corral me into playing a game with them, I'm not playing it from my 41-year old perspective, I'm playing it through their eyes.

If you can't do that, then don't review content. Content always has a specific audience. Really great content can weave together enough bits to at least satisfy every audience. Exceptional content manages to speak deeply to every audience. I still feel that's why The Incredibles is one of the best movies ever made. The struggles shown in that movie are relatable for every single person on the planet.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#139
post #15

There's an interesting concept with user reviews, in that they're inherently OF the people, whereas critical reviews are FOR the people. In a way, critical reviews are like celebrity chef cookbooks in that they should be considered aspirational. What we HOPE to be watching to please our senses of austerity, versus the pulp trash we might actually prefer to be watching. Similarly, sure, we might WISH we were making /…

Freakonomics just did a good podacast about this this week:

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/dont-worry-be-tacky/.

Essentially that what we talk about liking and what the general population actually like are very different.

They interviewed this woman, who as an art student learned all about 'high art' and 'low art' and in a moment of loss of inspiration went back to using some low art she appreciated as inspirationn:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/flora-yukhnovich-2077868

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#140
I think the numbers are just a distraction. What the critics like is informed by the desire to maintain access to the studios and the quality of the goodies they've been given (access journalism/junket whores), and what the public likes is informed by the size of the marketing spend and what the critics have already written before they saw the film.

A better proxy for public sentiment would be viewer scores from test screenings.

For me, it would be easy enough to blame any increasing divergence on the fact that now, due to the internet and consumer culture/conventions, critics scores matter less and direct marketing spend matters more. That would also account for why genre films diverge most, because each spends the budget of a small country on promotion.

edit: sorry for not being an amateur psychologist about this or moaning about ivory tower elites, but these are products.

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