Live data from Hacker News

DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

marktechpost.com

131–140 of 145 posts

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#131
post #82

Off-topic to Chinchilla, but relevant to the source site: MarkTechPost consistently borderline plagiarizes articles and shares them on their website as "paper summaries". They copy-paste from the source material and change some of the wording around as to appear original. My work, as well as other work from Berkeley AI Research, has been posted in this manner on their site. This seems highly unethical, and I'm surpri…

I don’t know about this site, and I agree its unethical. But it does make me realize that I much prefer using language of the paper directly as opposed to having a non-expert poorly translate what your paper said. Especially given how papers put a lot of time in the accuracy and specificity of their language and word choices. Would it also annoy you if they screwed up the interpretation of what you wrote? Is the alte…

It's okay to directly quote, which is what quote marks are for, with proper attribution, of course.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#133
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind children can learn english fine though. And there are areas highly unmaterial (mathematics) which people still reason about.

You ignored the point. I only brought sight as an example (though, admittedly, it is the largest data inflow).

Humans have to learn sight while learning speech though. I don't mean knowing that this is a dog, I mean making sense of noisy vision inputs.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ignored the point. I only brought sight as an example (though, admittedly, it is the largest data inflow).

Humans have to learn sight while learning speech though. I don't mean knowing that this is a dog, I mean making sense of noisy vision inputs.

So what? There's no indication that one hinders the other much, and may even improve generalization.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like a strange claim. The scaling laws are showing that you can still make gains with more data and more parameters. But then we’ve given up on matching human intelligence which is all about working efficiently with small training data, and certainly training a human does not need anywhere near as much data as GPT-3. GPT-3 was interesting as a proof-of-concept of what happens when you use a gigantic amount of…

>But then we’ve given up on matching human intelligence which is all about working efficiently with small training data, and certainly training a human does not need anywhere near as much data as GPT-3. I don't think we should really take so much inspiration from the brain. We didn't make airplanes work by building bird machines so why should we do that here. >GPT-3 was interesting as a proof-of-concept of what happe…

> I don't think we should really take so much inspiration from the brain. We didn't make airplanes work by building bird machines so why should we do that here.

It’s not that we should mimic the brain’s implementation, but we should certainly strive to match the brain’s capabilities. One of its outwardly observable capabilities is that it is extremely efficient in the size of the training data set it requires.

Efficiency isn’t an implementation detail, it’s definitional to what “highly intelligent” means.

GPT-3 is not an airplane, it’s a zeppelin. Zeppelins also have scaling laws dictating that a zeppelin should be very very large. Building bigger and bigger zeppelins is one thing, justifying expending resources on gigantic zeppelins by stating the scaling law and concluding that a jet aircraft will magically pop out if you build a big enough zeppelin is quite another.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#136
post #129
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible for a piecewise linear function to be anything other than linear outside the training sample. They are by their definition unable to do anything but interpolate.

(Side note: Transformers aren’t piecewise linear. The dot products are bilinear, and feeding in the same input twice (under different linear maps) into a bilinear map, produces a quadratic map, not a linear one.) People arguing about this are basically all speaking ambiguously, in ways that tend to either make an apparent disagreement when there is none, or hide the location of the actual disagreement. It is true tha…

>It is not true that a piecewise-linear model trained on a set of data points will produce only outputs which are a convex combination of outputs that appear in the training set.

No, and I didn't claim that. I said that, outside the training sample, the model is linear (or quadratic in the case of transformers, thanks for pointing that out) Whether linear or quadratic, a model that has a fixed structure outside the training sample, will obviously not fit data which lies far away from the training sample - i.e. it will not extrapolate. This isn't controversial - it's just something people like to forget about.

>A model trained on images which produced only convex combinations of images in its training set, would clearly be producing what could be called “interpolations between images in its training set”, and taking convex combinations of images is unimpressive.

True! I should have clarified that it's not linear interpolation in pixel space (or input space generally), but interpolation on the latent manifold. This is where the power, as well as limitations of deep learning come from. It's definitely non-trivial to identify the latent manifold of data - different dimensions of the manifold may sometimes even correspond to independent components, as you mention (position of eyes, skin tone,...) (though empirically, finding disentangled latent codes is mostly a function of the random seed).

How does an NN process a new input? It maps the input to the latent manifold.

In the input space, it will be some highly non-linear, non-trivial combination of points, which in terms of Euclidean distance in the input space, could be arbitrarily close or far away.

In the latent space, the output will be some convex combination of nearby points.

Here's the kicker - even if your problem happens to be well-modeled as a continuous, low-dimensional manifold embedded in a high-dimensional space (and many, many problems aren't), and even if you manage to obtain a super dense sampling of input space, so that the manifold can be well-approximated (which is impractical or impossible for most problems),

you will never be able to generalize beyond the data distribution.

Our brains don't stop working as soon as conditions are slightly different from what we've seen before. If there's a slight fog on a Stop sign, we can still see a stop sign. If the Go board is 9x9 rather than 19x19, we can still play Go. If we can play Starcraft on one map, we're pretty much as good on a different map, we don't need to relearn the game over the next several thousand years.

How come? Because we aren't just latent space interpolators. We can extrapolate.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#137

Seems the link is down. Found a decent synopsis/discussion on lesswrong. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/midXmMb2Xg37F2Kgn/new-scalin... > On March 29th, DeepMind published a paper, "Training Compute-Optimal Large Language Models", that shows that essentially everyone -- OpenAI, DeepMind, Microsoft, etc. -- has been training large language models with a deeply suboptimal use of compute. > Following the new scaling la…

70 billion parameters... Is each of those a 4-byte float? So, is that 280 billion bytes of just parameters?

Yes, parameters are usually stored as float32, activations as bfloat16 or float16.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But then we’ve given up on matching human intelligence which is all about working efficiently with small training data, and certainly training a human does not need anywhere near as much data as GPT-3. I don't think we should really take so much inspiration from the brain. We didn't make airplanes work by building bird machines so why should we do that here. >GPT-3 was interesting as a proof-of-concept of what happe…

> I don't think we should really take so much inspiration from the brain. We didn't make airplanes work by building bird machines so why should we do that here. It’s not that we should mimic the brain’s implementation, but we should certainly strive to match the brain’s capabilities. One of its outwardly observable capabilities is that it is extremely efficient in the size of the training data set it requires. Effici…

Your earlier analogy kind of feels like saying that because you can go further by adding more fuel to a jet engines fuel tank that you have failed at efficiency and should redesign the engine.

But generally I think the better analogy is a rocket ship. If we can still go higher and faster with more fuel we should try to do that before we worry about engine efficiency. You have to get to the moon before you can colonize the galaxy.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#139
post #123
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is the human brain able to achieve a higher level of success with 1% of the data? The most obvious answer is "the human brain uses a shit-ton more compute", for 18+ years as well. We spend data, which we have in abundance, to save on compute, which we do not. Even at the most generous low-end estimates of the human brain's computing power, we are only barely there; on the high-end estimates that people in love…

Yeah, there are ~100B neurons, ~1Q synapses, but how much compute is the brain actually using over time? Some quick googling gives this: - Generation of an action potential seems to use ~2.5×10^−7 J [0] - The brain consumes around 20W during normal activity This seems to imply that there are around 8×10^7, call it 10^8, activations per second [1]. Apparently, the average neuron has 1000 synapses. Let's say each synap…

There is a long history of connectionist attempts trying to ballpark the brain compute to constrain AI timelines, going back to von Neumann/Turing/Good. The most recent one would be https://www.openphilanthropy.org/brain-computation-report You can see in Figure 1 that your 10^12 steady state is the very low end. If you're interested in seeing where your envelope estimate differs from the others, well, it has the references.

Re: DeepMind’s New Language Model, Chinchilla

#140
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is probably a space-time trade off that needs to be explored in this space. It might be possible to preload the some of the most likely tokens to be selected next into the cache and/or RAM. These are glorified auto-complete algorithms that are poorly understood, as DeepMind's optimizations appear to show. For the English language, it is probable that there are only so many possible grammatically correct selecti…

I’ve been saying this for years, language models are the ML equivalent of the billionaire space race, it’s just a bunch of orgs with unlimited funding spending millions of dollars on compute to get more parameters than their rivals. It could be decades before we start to see them scale down or make meaningful optimizations. This paper is a good start but I’d be willing to bet everyone will ignore it and continue brea…

It's just about where the software development incentives are. Big shops have incentive to have service models. I think of it like a return to the mainframe days, and an old-IBM like mindset.

However the upside to pocket sized intelligence will eventually win out. It's just a question of when someone will scrape together the required investment.

Post reply on HN