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New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

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Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#131

Post by thinkmassive »

tinus_hn wrote: post #74
thinkmassive wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“block stranger requests” could mean using your contacts as an allowlist

As long as you hardly ever meet new people, of course. Obviously this is not a trivial problem to solve, otherwise spam wouldn’t exist.

If you meet a new person and want to exchange messages, there's not a huge difference between adding them in your messaging app and adding them to your contact list.

Using this model it would better to have multiple lists though, or at least tagging within the general contacts list, so tag-based lists could be allowed by certain apps (to keep business and personal messaging separate for example).

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#132

Post by lotsofpulp »

MattJ100 wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed it costs Apple quite a bit for the bandwidth and storage of all the media files they send, and hence why Apple is the only one that offers to do it at full quality. I assume it costs Meta a lot too, and so they reduce the quality of media flying around on WhatsApp. Would others have to be able and willing to pick up these costs if the networks were opened up? I am thinking even if Apple/Meta were forced to…

The way it generally happens on XMPP and Matrix is that the upload is stored at the sending user's server, and a URL is passed around. That means the choice is up to the operator of the sender's service as to what size files they allow, and how long for. Applying this model to the case of a 4K video sent from iMessage, the file would be hosted by Apple, and you would merely receive a reference to it (i.e. URL) so you…

Thanks for the explanation. Seems like no one would be forced to subsidize anyone else if they did not want to simply because they used the same char protocol.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#133

Post by viccuad »

RenThraysk wrote: post #79
viccuad wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So no guarantee of interoperability. Why not? Can you come up with examples? Are you worried that they would use automation to generate a new "API" per second, so consumers would need to play catch-up? Do you think that would hold in court, if/when this initiative has been legislated?

A messenger just refuses to upgrade. So Alice who was sending Bob messages with no problem yesterday, today breaks. So back to having to use the same messenger.

> A messenger refuses to upgrade.

Well yes, if a messenger refuses to upgrade and consume a working API, it will not consume much. This law is not about forcing all messengers to interoperate with the infinite messengers out there. This law is about forcing those with capitalisation of ~7 billion to provide a sane endpoint.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#134

Post by jjav »

Barrin92 wrote: post #5

This is almost too good to actually go through. Protocol transparency, that is to say forcing companies to open up their APIs would be one of the simplest and effective ways to break platform effects and walled gardens. It shouldn't just be limited to messaging. An internet where everyone can built a client against Facebook's API, or Youtube or what have you and users get actual choice and control about how they cons…

> It shouldn't just be limited to messaging. An internet where everyone can built a client against Facebook's API, or Youtube or what have you and users get actual choice and control about how they consume those services would be a big leap forward.

Or a wonderful leap backward, in the most positive sense.

In these days of proprietary wall gardens everywhere it might be difficult to remember, but earlier in the Internet that was how things worked. Every protocol was public, documented in RFCs and all implementations were interoperable (barrings bugs/etc, but mostly anyway).

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#135

Post by pabs3 »

Sakos wrote: post #14

I miss the days when I could fire up Pidgin (or Gaim when I started using it) and instantly connect to every IM service I ever needed. Hopefully this is a step back towards that.

You still can for many protocols, Pidgin has plugins for lots of modern protocols:

https://pidgin.im/plugins/

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#136

Post by pabs3 »

tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Just force monopolistic/abusive/anti-competitive companies to expose API's ; it's not a stretch; they did it for banks (psd2) and it's great for consumers and companies alike. Do it for everything; open systems make the world better. And they can still be monetized; it's not like forcing everyone to open source everything. Edit: more subtle choice of words to indicate what I meant

The banking API rule isn't that useful, you as a bank customer cannot get access to that bank's APIs, instead you have to go to another company who does have access.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#137

Post by pabs3 »

teekert wrote: post #46

This annoys me. Rather than robbing Moxie of his vision and forcing Meta to break their business model, why do governments not just lead by example? Start using Matrix, we all know that the signup process could be easier (among many other things), throw some money and devs at the project with that specific goal. Start offering services over Matrix. Public money, public code. The whole world benefits.

They are already using Matrix somewhat, for example the French:

https://matrix.org/blog/2018/04/26/matrix-and-riot-confirmed...

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#138

Post by pabs3 »

tomrod wrote: post #26

Yes! Like another comment mentioned I'd love a return of pidgin. Further, the law should specificy that the protocol allows E2EE, and we have traction.

Pidgin is still here and supports modern protocols via plugins.

https://pidgin.im/plugins/

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#139

Post by tluyben2 »

pabs3 wrote: post #136
tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Just force monopolistic/abusive/anti-competitive companies to expose API's ; it's not a stretch; they did it for banks (psd2) and it's great for consumers and companies alike. Do it for everything; open systems make the world better. And they can still be monetized; it's not like forcing everyone to open source everything. Edit: more subtle choice of words to indicate what I meant

The banking API rule isn't that useful, you as a bank customer cannot get access to that bank's APIs, instead you have to go to another company who does have access.

Yes, like my company, who in turn make useful apps for consumers which was far harder (and more expensive) before. You had to jump through all kinds of hoops, you don't need to jump so many here in EU/UK. I did integrations in HK/AU/US and that was seriously painful without these in place. And far more expensive.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#140

Post by stale2002 »

teekert wrote: post #64
stingraycharles wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said about WhatsApp et al. I’m going to bet that Meta also indicated they don’t want other third party clients. From my point of view, the advantages of opening up these platforms outweigh the disadvantages for those who don’t like that. The whole idea of this type of regulation is that it tries to do what’s best for the consumer, and the market as a whole, not not necessarily for the businesses behin…

And then we keep Moxie as a slave forcing him to get motivated to implement all this? Or will the government cease control of the code? Stop Moxie from Forking, then tell people to stay on the government branch? And the arguments hold for Meta too if you ask me. WhatsApp is not a public service. It was not build (or in this case bought later on) with our interests at the top of the priority list. If we want public se…

They don't have to be forced to do anything.

If these companies do not want to follow these laws, then they are within their right to not operate in the EU.

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