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Inside Putin's Circle

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Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#131

Post by yucky »

agumonkey wrote: post #44
mekkkkkk wrote: post #28

I read an incredibly thorough book about Putin a year or so ago, and what stuck with me is how political his career in the KGB was. In those final years of the USSR, everything was in shambles, and any position of power became so through-and-through political. That makes his rise so interesting and frightening. He has been forged in a dark web of covert slush funds, power projection and kompramat. He was obviously ve…

there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, a series called "Putin files" Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen It's partial but has a lot of detail On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer or even Stone. It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased anti aggressor in this case)

>Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer

I don't know that I would refer to Professor Mearsheimer's view as pro-Russian, he has plenty of criticism of Putin and the Russian political system in general. But the fact that he has been railing on the likely consequences of our approach for dealing with the Russia/Ukraine situation for years, and been proved right, should make his writing and interviews required for anybody seeking to better understand who we got here.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#132

Post by netsharc »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #86
worik wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Or Russia wins

that's not going to happen. When they try to take a NATO country it's over for them. Possibly over for all of us.

It seems like Putin will only surrender after he's expended everything he's got, and among "everything he's got" includes several thousand nuclear missiles...

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#133

Post by agumonkey »

dralley wrote: post #107
agumonkey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, a series called "Putin files" Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen It's partial but has a lot of detail On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer or even Stone. It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased anti aggressor in this case)

I watched both of those interviews yesterday, they are excellent.

It lacks the first hand soviet agent data that the ft article has, which more important in my view. Still better than nothing.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#134

Post by zoomablemind »

ordu wrote: post #3

> These men are known in Russia as the “siloviki” — “men of force”, or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, “hard men”. Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and…

> ...The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force"...

"siloviki" => members/heads of the law enforcement and security agencies, read "enforcers". But "hard men" passes the forceful connotation well enough.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#135

Post by outside1234 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #77
Koshkin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FSB is an intelligence agency It is a security agency, a.k.a. the “secret police.” (It does, of course, spy on the populace.)

Basically the Stasi of Russia, no?

They are, in fact, what the Stasi were modeled after.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#137

Post by outside1234 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior…

We'll see how that works in China in the first serious recession

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#138

Post by tartoran »

trhway wrote: post #121
huhtenberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). That's it.

Good news - as result of Ukraine war failure these lowlifes are starting to eat each other - the director of foreign intelligence of FSB has just got arrested for "embezzling money intended for sabotage and gathering of intelligence in Ukraine and for providing false information about political situation in Ukraine" :) From https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-... : "Meanwhile, panic appears to…

Putin surrounded himself with yes men. These people are afraid to displease Putin and end up taking shortcuts left and right to give him what he wants. Only fear is keeping this system from crumbling, they’re all afraid of eachother.

“ Soldierov told the British Times that it could well be that the FSB had realistic knowledge of the situation in Ukraine - the only question was what was passed on to Putin.

"The problem lies in the fact that it is often risky for those responsible to tell Putin things that he doesn't want to hear," Soldierov said.”

[0] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-pu...

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#139

Post by tapas73 »

pstuart wrote: post #125
khuey wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Chinese model" is fundamentally underwritten by exporting vast quantities of goods to the West which Putin just blew up any hope of doing.

Other than fossil fuels and vodka, what does Russia have to offer the world?

bad examples

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#140

Post by HWR_14 »

ordu wrote: post #10
twelve40 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a gun, are also included.

Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at least have a license to wear gun. Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This knowledge tells me that "силовые структуры"/"structures of force" are organizations that use force to solve problems. And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong with that last statement, and…

> FSB is an intelligence agency,

They are also a military branch and have military ranks, although they don't wear uniforms. The FSB acts like a combination of FBI, a border patrol and secret police.

They are also the group allowed to carry out an assassination on foreign soil (according to Russian law), although they are not allowed to authorize such a mission on their own.

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