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Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

reuters.com

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Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#131

Post by rchaud »

graeme wrote: post #103
randogeuebdb wrote: post #88

Not arguing against sanctions in general, but for South Africa, the collapse of the soviet union, which had been propping up the south african economy, played a more important role. https://reason.com/2013/12/06/did-economic-sanctions-help-en...

Good article. However it doesn’t say the Soviet Union propped up South Africa. Rather it says that the ANC (opposition) was supported by the Soviets. So the apartheid government argued that apartheid was necessary to keep out communism. When the Soviets collapsed, this argument weakened and more people were convinced to dismantle apartheid.

I think it's clear to most that the USSR were not friendly with apartheid SA.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#132

Post by foxfluff »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #121
foxfluff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Ukrainans believe there's a "ghost plane" in the sky that destroyed half russian air force. No, not a ghost plane. Just a nickname given to a pilot (though it could be multiple pilots) who allegedly shot down a handful of Russian planes in the first days of the war. "Ghost of Kyiv." There's uncertainty and a lot of speculation going on about this pilot's accomplishments (and identity), but that doesn't mean the…

>>>that doesn't mean the Ukrainians are being told lies https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/ukraine-s-snake-island-h... ^Another example of a Ukrainian "myth" being a straight up lie. I haven't seen good data confirming Ghost of Kiev's kills....much like the "Russian Airborne lost 2x Il-76 transports full of paratroopers". I haven't seen pics of Il-76 crash sites. Seems odd, considering the huge amount of photos/vide…

Can you say what exactly here is a straight up lie? That the Snake Island defenders were thought dead after contact with them was lost following the attack? That Ukraine claims there were 13 defenders while Russia claims there were 82?

There's a ton of things we don't have good video coverage of, including the Snake Island events, so it's very hard to verify any claims. This lack of certainty affects the belligerents too so -- unless you have conclusive evidence to show that deliberately false statements have been made -- I think it's quite arrogant to say "straight up lies" concerning statements that may have been made in confusion and without a full picture of the situation.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#133

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

boplicity wrote: post #123
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, some will. But we've seen how well propaganda works here in the US over the last 6 years, I feel less and less and certain that we'll be able to agree on a common reality here at home. The number of people that still argue about how the last election was stolen just blows my mind.

The vast majority of Republicans approve of Trump. In other words, they approve of perpetual, blatant dishonesty, or at least don't think it is important enough to change their opinion. Very disheartening.

>”In other words, they approve of perpetual, blatant dishonesty, or at least don't think it is important enough to change their opinion.”

Or it’s the case that they see the other side as being perpetually and blatantly dishonest.

Edit: Which is more likely, one political faction is objectively correct and the other is objectively wrong, or that partisan people view the world in such a way that their own side isn’t lying and the other is?

If you wonder how such people can approve of lies and blatant dishonesty it’s because they fundamentally don’t see such things as lies to begin with. They see it as the truth.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#134

Post by jlokier »

hprotagonist wrote: post #81
itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

I have a family member who ended a 60 year friendship yesterday because the other party, who lives in moscow, wholly embraces the russian propaganda line; up to and including telling my family member that it's impossible that the city they both grew up in has been being shelled for the last week, and it was just the west's lies.

'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me' (bbc.co.uk)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60600487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30555692

--

The 25-year-old has been speaking regularly to her mother, who lives in Moscow. But in these conversations, and even after sending videos from her heavily bombarded hometown, Oleksandra is unable to convince her mother about the danger she is in.

"I didn't want to scare my parents, but I started telling them directly that civilians and children are dying," she says.

"But even though they worry about me, they still say it probably happens only by accident, that the Russian army would never target civilians. That it's Ukrainians who're killing their own people."

--

He was surprised not to have heard from his father, who works at a monastery near Nizhny Novgorod in Russia. He called his father and described what was happening. His father replied that this wasn't true; there was no war and - in fact - Russians were saving Ukraine from Nazis.

Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.

"My own father does not believe me, knowing that I'm here and see everything with my own eyes. And my mum, his ex-wife, is going through this too," he says.

"She is hiding with my grandmother in the bathroom, because of the bombardment."

--

"I called my mum again. I told her I was scared. 'Don't worry', she said, reassuringly. 'They [Russia] will never bomb Kyiv'."

But they are already doing it, Anastasiya replied.

"I told her there were casualties among civilians. 'But that's what we had too when Ukraine attacked Donbas!', she said, laughing. For a moment I couldn't breathe. Hearing my mum say this with such cruelty just broke my heart."

Anastasiya believes the image Russian media has created is one of the "glorified Russian army" ridding Ukraine from Nazis. For years she avoided political arguments with her parents, but this time she slammed the phone down on her mum.

We spoke to Anastasiya when she was travelling away from Kyiv after four nights in a bomb shelter. Her mind was on an uncertain future.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#135

Post by [deleted] »

itsoktocry wrote: post #76
osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

[deleted]

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#136

Post by mlindner »

severino wrote: post #119
lovelyviking wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

send message and then what? the propaganda there would tell that west is using any chance to put russia down and here is another example. People in the west are too naive to realise that in russia no body asks what people think. The level of propaganda is so strong that people would believe whatever they are told. The idiocy of those in the west who think that russians can decide something once they face sanctions is…

> the propaganda there would tell that west is using any chance to put russia down and here is another example Aren't we?

No we are not. And this absurd fake news that the west is responsible needs to end.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#137

Post by [deleted] »

rajup wrote: post #127
gameswithgo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing what about half of America was able to believe for over six years I have no confidence that people will realize things don’t make sense

Firstly it’s not half of America since not everyone votes. Secondly I doubt every Trump voter believes or believed every single lie he spewed. There are tons of reasons why someone might have voted for him without really agreeing with all of his rubbish. IMHO it would help to stop painting this other section of voters as dumb and easily duped.

[deleted]

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#138

Post by coward-guy »

lovelyviking wrote: post #120
itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

> Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? This is exactly what they believe. More then that , they are told that some of Ukrainians are “nazis” who kill ‘normal’ Ukrainians. They’ve been told that all horrible bombing scenes the world is witnessing are done not by rus. invader but by by those “nazis” Ukrainians. They are truly be…

Unfortunately, Russian propaganda is based of facts which are hard to dispute: * Right Sector - Ukrainian nationalist neo-nazi political party in Ukrainian parliamentary * Azov Detachment - neo-Nazi unit of the National Guard of Ukraine, who participated in wars in Donbass * Lots of streets are named after Stepan Bandera, for example Stepan Bandera Avenue in Kyiv, who was a leader of Ukrainian ultranationalists and cooperated with Nazi Germany in 1941 against USSR

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#139

Post by richiebful1 »

dkn775 wrote: post #125
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, some will. But we've seen how well propaganda works here in the US over the last 6 years, I feel less and less and certain that we'll be able to agree on a common reality here at home. The number of people that still argue about how the last election was stolen just blows my mind.

Look at how uniform the Ukrainian coverage is if you think we can’t agree on a common reality. In principle I am pro Ukrainian I guess, although the gas prices are pissing me off, it’s too obvious to see the uniform lack of anything but one side story being told everywhere online and in media

I don't see how letting Russia run roughshod over Ukraine with no Western response would fix the gas price issue. Oil markets price in wars as higher oil prices, especially when big oil producers get into major wars.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#140

Post by severino »

mlindner wrote: post #136
severino wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the propaganda there would tell that west is using any chance to put russia down and here is another example Aren't we?

No we are not. And this absurd fake news that the west is responsible needs to end.

Well, I asked because in the face of similar events, I never remember a reaction as strong as the one that we are adopting against Russia. So I think it indeed has something to do with Russia, and not with the event itself.
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