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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#131

Post by zo1 »

markdown wrote: post #120
friedman23 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's good for society I feel like you've taken this position as a fact without having any evidence supporting it.

[flagged]

And if I follow your premises, I come to a different conclusion entirely. You're essentially advocating for society to perpetuate this "tropical, laid-back paradise" for the group, absolving them as a group to grow and better themselves (also implying that they can't grow on their own, absent discrimination).

At the same time, you forget that this reverse-discrimination is usually justified under the guise of "perpetual" repression by the other group. It's a mess all-around and we're just adding additional layers of complexity and blame to go around. I.e. now you're punishing completely innocent people and breeding resentment, whilst telling the other group that they have essentially a repressive enemy. That is Not good for society.

I honestly don't know how we convinced ourselves that this entire thing is good. We will be judged by our future generations.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#132

Post by Mavvie »

xvector wrote: post #123
markdown wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Racism is not good for society. You cannot justify holding Asian-Americans to a higher level because "they can handle it." Asians are part of society too, and yet Asian-American children have dramatically different and more stressful childhoods than their counterparts - a constant churn of studying, stress, and pressure, compared to the relatively carefree childhoods of their peers. It disgusts me that you can say "t…

I haven't formed a strong opinion on affirmative action yet.

> You cannot justify holding Asian-Americans to a higher level because "they can handle it."

The person you're replying to didn't say anything like that.

> It disgusts me that you can say "this is good for America" when Asian-American children have to go through a nightmare to have a chance at opportunities comparable to their peers, simply because of the color of their skin.

I agree, but I think I understand what they meant. They're suggesting that the benefit to society of having more diversity in the higher educated (and then higher income, etc) brackets outweighs the harm to society from unfair admissions. It's certainly a way start rebalancing the race distribution of the "upper classes" of society.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#133

Post by BadCookie »

tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

It would be more fair to create admission quotas based on family economic status, but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt the wealthy too much. The universities wouldn’t like the financial impact either. But if true equality of opportunity were the goal, then that’s how you’d need to do it I think.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#134

Post by xanaxagoras »

refurb wrote: post #46
jedberg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to do it, but then you just perpetuate the biases inherent in the system. For example if the standards include "child of an alumni", that's not very fair. If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. And what they look like is important because certain people experience life very differently depending on what they look like.

"If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests." Sure but the schools who choose to not rely on academic merit any more are just bringing everyone else down instead of raising up the few who need it. Seems like a terrible solution. San Francisco just turned Lowell High, one of the best high schools in the country, from merit based to lottery. This is de…

That school is over. It will be propped up for a while on its laurels but the prestige will quickly wither and not return. Kind of like a capital group buying a once great brand and destroying everything that made it great while cutting costs. The radical, race-obsessed, racist arm of the modern American left destroys everything it touches.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#135

Post by thaumasiotes »

markdown wrote: post #125
ipnon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there is no difference between Harvard's current admissions policy and telling the marginalized Asian students, "great application, but we don't accept your kind here anymore." It's not right when it happens to Asians, it's not right when it happens to Blacks, it's not right when it happens to anybody.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Affirmative action is crucial in a multicultural society. India has done it for decades.

Good thing India's only been a multicultural society for decades.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#137

Post by gxs »

uejfiweun wrote: post #86
tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

You have to understand, this is the last dying throes of a liberal fire that has been raging for hundreds of years. Liberalism has achieved great things in the west, including expanding the rights of women, minorities, and LGBT individuals. We are all better off for its achievements. However, the low hanging fruit is taken, and now the same activists that once fought for noble goals are reduced to taking ever more di…

Thank you for contributing something other than pop-sociology to the comments (omg race is a social construct guys).

I hadn’t thought about this this way before - eventually anyone with an inclination to “rage against the machine” will have to really pinpoint that energy and drill down and down until it seems like a parody.

Not saying we’re there now, but an interesting thought exercise.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#138

Post by cuteboy19 »

uejfiweun wrote: post #86
tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

You have to understand, this is the last dying throes of a liberal fire that has been raging for hundreds of years. Liberalism has achieved great things in the west, including expanding the rights of women, minorities, and LGBT individuals. We are all better off for its achievements. However, the low hanging fruit is taken, and now the same activists that once fought for noble goals are reduced to taking ever more di…

Nit: it's not liberalism, but rather the general progressive/socialist movements. Some of the things being championed are highly illiberal, for example CRT has anti-liberalism as a central tenet.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#139

Post by psyc »

tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

It’s all so depressingly primitive. Half of me wants to protest that surely we’re more enlightened than this in current year. The other half would settle for everyone else admitting that yes we are definitely still this backwards.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#140

Post by notch656a »

Mavvie wrote: post #132
xvector wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is not good for society. You cannot justify holding Asian-Americans to a higher level because "they can handle it." Asians are part of society too, and yet Asian-American children have dramatically different and more stressful childhoods than their counterparts - a constant churn of studying, stress, and pressure, compared to the relatively carefree childhoods of their peers. It disgusts me that you can say "t…

I haven't formed a strong opinion on affirmative action yet. > You cannot justify holding Asian-Americans to a higher level because "they can handle it." The person you're replying to didn't say anything like that. > It disgusts me that you can say "this is good for America" when Asian-American children have to go through a nightmare to have a chance at opportunities comparable to their peers, simply because of the c…

How do we know what 'race' someone is, do we just ask them or do we test for DNA. The more you drill down into the race question the more absurd it seems, and you quickly realize people either mean culture or some DNA pseudo-science.
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